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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Fishless Cycling
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Fishless Cycling
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hitster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: Fishless Cycling Reply with quote

 Guys,
 
 I  am  so  confused  by  all  the  stuff  everyone  is  writing  about  the  cycling.
 
 Let  me  start  off  by  setting  the  basics  right.
 
 My  Tank  is  is  being  used  for  the  first  time  for  MW.  The  crushed  coral  gravel  is  new  /  thouroughly  washed  /  The  water  is  100%  new  with  salt  mix  added  to  it  with  a  salinity  1.021
 
 The  UG  is  on  since  25th  April.  That  i  guess  ,  leaves  my  tank  with  no  Ammmonia  to  begin  with,  so  if  there  s    no  ammonia  where  will  the  nitrite  and  nitrate  come  from?
 
 Actually  i  tested  the  water  for  Nitrite  and  there  is  some  (0.1)
 
 I  asked  Nautilius  if  i  could  add  the  hardy  damsel  to  begin  the  cycle  .  He  said  if  i  started  the  tank  on  24th  (~  5  days)  its  better  not  to  intro  damsel  as  it  may  not  survive.  He  said  that  the  ammonia  will  rise  after  10  days  and  the  cycle  will  begin  ...My  question  is  how  will  the  ammonia  rise  when  there  is  none  now  (my  presumption  here)  Nautilius  also  didnt  bother  to  ask  me  if  there  is  ammonia  currently  available  in  the  tank.  Geez  ,    can  someone  talk  from  the  perspective  of  a  newbie  and  not  an  expert.  I  am  sure  i  will  graduate  one  day  to  an  expert  myself  BUT  currently  am  a  newbie...
 
 Some  expert  needs  to  get  in  my  shoes  ,  think  from  my  perspective  and  then  write  back  please...
 
 Thanks  in  anticipation
 
 Hits
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 The  LR  contains  organisms  that  produce  ammonia  and  start  the  cycle.  Allowing  the  tank  to  cycle  using  only  LR  is  called  fishless  cycling.  
 If  you  have  a  fish  only  system,  use  a  prawn  to  start  off  the  cyle.  This  will  decompose  and  get  the  ammonia  production  started  off.
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hitster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: Basic Query Reply with quote

 All,
 
 In  a  totally  new  setup  of  MW,  does  Ammonia  traces  be  present  to  begin  the  cycle?
 
 The  fact  that  there  is  NO2  traces  (  ~  0.1  )  in  the  water,  does  it  confirm  that  the  tank  has  begun  cycling?
 
 Confirm  pls
 
 Hits
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Edit:  Sorry  forget  what  I  said.  Brain  not  working  today.  Traces  of  NitrIte  -  yes,  chances  are  tank  has  started  cyling.  Check  in  a  few  days  and  see  if  the  levels  have  gone  higher.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
The  fact  that  there  is  NO2  traces  (  ~  0.1  )  in  the  water,  does  it  confirm  that  the  tank  has  begun  cycling?                
 
 are  you  nuts?
 it  is  not  even  a  couple  of  days  and  you  already  tested  the  nitrites!
 NO  IT  DOES  NOT  MEAN  THAT  THE  TANK  HAS  STARTED  CYCLING
 it  means  that  probably  your  sand  is  not  bleached!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
The  water  is  100%  new  with  salt  mix  added  to  it  with  a  salinity  1.021                  

 check  your  source  water  also  -  even  that  might  be  responsible  for  the  reading!  And  bring  down  the  salinity  to  1.020!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
In  a  totally  new  setup  of  MW,  does  Ammonia  traces  be  present  to  begin  the  cycle?                
 
 the  term  is  SW  and  not  MW!
 fish  less  cycling  is  done  with  a  dead  prawn  put  in  the  tank  and  shifted  every  second  day  to  different  locations  in  the  tank  -  second  priority  is  that  your  UGF  should  be  on  24X7  -  third  there  will  be  a  probable  diatom  bloom  in  the  tank  and  finally  the  tank  will  be  ready  for  the  first  fish  which  I  don't  recommend  either  of  your  choice    Thumb Down  
 I  would  recommend  a  maroon  clown  or  a  fire  clown  (sturdier  than  percula)  and  as  pradeep  suggested  the  regal  tang  will  probably  out  grow  the  tank  sooner  than  you  realise!
 
 @Pradeep
 
                                                 
Quote:                
The  LR  contains  organisms  that  produce  ammonia  and  start  the  cycle.                  

 It  is  half  true!  Actually  the  cycling  speedens  up  with  an  introduction  of  a  single  fish  in  the  tank  if  you  have  LR!
 LR  does  not  produce  ammonia  -  it  consumes  it!
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dr_mozart
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote:                

 LR  does  not  produce  ammonia  -  it  consumes  it!                

 
 but  atleast  the  stuff  dying  on  the  LR  will  produce  NH3  rite????i  mean  when  the  LR  is  newly  introduced  into  the  tank...sum  of  the  live  organisms  on  it  are  bound  to  die  rite??
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:25 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote:                
LR  does  not  produce  ammonia  -  it  consumes  it!                

 
 New  live  rock  does  produce  ammonia.And  will  continue  to  do  so  until  denitrifying  bacteria  colonise  it(or  start  functioning  full  time).Until  then,LR  is  a  vey  good  choice  of  fishless  cycling.
 (infact  even  established  LR  produces  small  amounts  of  ammonia  when  shifted  to  another  tank...practically  tested)
 
 If  you  want  to  take  fishless  cycling  to  highest  heights,There  is  a  method  described  by  waterlife(using  their  products,ofcourse)---->biomature  and  bacterlife.Biomature  must  be  some  kind  of  ammonia-something  mix,and  bacterlife  is  starter  culture.Details  available  on  the  product  packing.


Last edited by murthy on Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hitster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: quest reframed Reply with quote

 ok...i  reframe  my  query.
 
 the  water  is  new  (with  salt  mix).  The  substrate  is  (non  bleached  confirmed  by  nautilius)  but  thoroughly  washed...(once  again  by  me).
 In  this  condition  is  it  possible  to  have  nitrites  in  4  days?  does  nitrites  presence  in  tank  mean  that  cycling  has  started?  if  no,  it  concludes  that  nitrites  can  be  present  in  water  (i  have  no  clue  because  of  what?)  Thats  the  confusion  i  wanna  clear.
 
 Pls  stop  telling  me  not  to  test  the  no2...testing  no2  certainly  will  not  harm  anything  in  the  tank...i  am  testing  cus  i  hv  that  kit  thats  why.
 
 and  logically  if  the  cycle  is  Nh3/Nh4==>  NO2  ==>  NO3  then  the  presence  of  the  traces  of  NO2  means  i  am  into  the  cycle....
 If  u  have  any  other  thoughts  please  clarify  your  stand...
 
 (PS  -  I  am  still  learning  so  if  u  make  statements  ,  reason  it  out...That  would  make  me  understand  the  roots)
 
 Hits
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murthy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hitster...I  understand  your  frustration.Nitrite  being  present  in  your  tank  in  just  four  days  is  NOT  cycling!!!
 Obviously  your  source  of  nitrites  is  else  where.Here  are  the  possibilities:
 
 1.your  test  kit  is  kaput
 
 2.Nitrite  is  from  your  fresh  water  source(I  bet  you  used  water  straight  out  of  the  tap)---->I  suspect  the  municipal  corporation  itself  does  some  filtering/mixing  up  contaminated  water  that  will  add  nitrites/nitrates/mud/E.coli/baby  elephants....in  short  tap  water  is  not  the  purest.Test  your  fresh  water  source.
 
 3.The  sand.wherever  it  was  kept  earlier,it  must  have  housed  some  living  organisms.They  died,produced  ammonia  in  the  lfs,but  became  nitrites  by  the  time  it  reached  you(?)....buddy  thats  all    can  think  of.
 
 Whatever  it  is,nitrites  also  need  to  be  converted  to  nitrates,so  in  a  way,it  will  help  start  nitrogen  cycle.My  suggestion-try  using  RO  water  for  mixing  salt.That  way  you  begin  with  a  clean  slate.  Smile
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:00 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote:                

 the  term  is  SW  and  not  MW!
                 
 
 
 Thank  you.  Everytime  I  see  MW,  I  try  figuring  out  what  it  means  and  the  term  'medium  wave'  gets  stuck  in  my  head.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 @Pradeep
                                                   
Quote:                
The  LR  contains  organisms  that  produce  ammonia  and  start  the  cycle.                  

 It  is  half  true!  Actually  the  cycling  speedens  up  with  an  introduction  of  a  single  fish  in  the  tank  if  you  have  LR!
 LR  does  not  produce  ammonia  -  it  consumes  it!                

 
 I  was  referring  to  the  dead  organisms  on  the  LR  which  decay  and  produce  ammonia  when  the  new  cured/uncured  LR  is  first  established  in  the  tank.  
 Eventually,yeah,  the  BB  on  the  LR  will  absorb  the  ammonia.
 
 @Hitster
 Check  again  every  2-3  days  or  so.  You  should  see  the  NO2  rise  to  higher  levels  and  then  start  dropping  off.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: Cycle Reply with quote

 I  guess  before  the  tank  cycles...i  will  cycle  off    Chuckle  
 
 "Change  water  to  RO"  What  is  RO??  The  only  source  of  water  in  my  place  is  the  Muncipal  Tap  water  which  is  chlorinated  but  Chlorine  says  bye  bye  in  a  day...
 
 Its  been  6  days  now.  Other  contaminants  in  water...yeah  i  dont  deny  that...the  water  pipes  are    only  100+  years  old  and  go  through  the  clean  sewages  of  mumbai  and  in  some  thousands  places  leak...
 
 Also  the  sand  may  have  some  dead  guys...obviously  not  visible  to  naked  eye  at  the  moment...
 
 So  that  itself  means  i  do  not  have  to  think  much  about  introducing  dead  prawn  or  any  fish  to  begin  the  cycle???  Correct  me  here
 
 My  only  worry  is  whether  or  not  the  cycle  has  begun  else  i  may  have  to  begin  it  after  a  week  which  will  create  further  delays...
 
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aidscontrol
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:03 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 hi,
 
 I  am  clear  with    the  explanations  you  guys  have  made.
 
 New  water--->  You  dont  exactly  term  something  as  new.Water  can  never  be  new
 Both  your  new  and  old  water  contain                                                              gases,minerals,ions,bacteria,fungi,actinomycetes,viruses,protozoa,etc.
 
 When  you  have  water  in  your  newly  setup  tank.There  is  enough  organic  matter  in  the  tank  to  start  with.The  microorganisms  count  will  be  atleast  
 6*10^6.(60,000,000)Even  sterile  water  if  exposed  to  the  atmosphere  for  a  few  minutes  will  accumulate  enough  microorganisms.So  dont  go  around  looking  for  clean  water.Your  only  option  would  be  Distilled  water  which  cannot  support  life  unless  you  add  required  nutrients  for  life  to  survive.
 Corporation  water  or  river  water  or  pond  water  or  anywater  will  have  carbon  chains  in  it,and  it  will  be  used  in  the  energy  cycles  of  microorganism.
 
 These  organisms  will  be  releasing  organic  compounds  in  the  water  and  their  death  due  to  non  availability  of  energy  source  also  contributes  to  the  nitrogen  cycle.
 
 Certain  type  of  viruses  will  also  be  colonising  and  destroying  the  bacteria  in  the  water.Apart  from  this  dust  carries  a  lot  of  organic  matter.Spores  of  fungi  and  algae  are  ominipresent.
 
 It  is  common  to  find  nitrates  and  nitrites  and  ammonia  in  water  and  also  the  bacteria  that  release  enzymes  to  break  down  these.At  any  given  point  of  time  in  your  aquarium  you  will  have  Nitates,nitrites  and  ammonia.You  just  can't  help  it.Only  their  availability  might  fluctuate  due  to  certain  reasons.Like  the  ratio  of  bacteria  that  is  involved  in  the  cycle  or  artificial  filters  and  chemicals.Your  fish  wont  die  with  a  limited  amount  of  ammonia,Only  lethal  levels  will  be  toxic.Ofcourse  this  varies  with  different  species  of  fish.
 
 About  the  dead  prawn  in  water.If  you  add  boiled  prawn  it  will  accelerate  the  decomposition.
 
 Aidscontrol
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psimhan
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Joined: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 2053
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Cycle Reply with quote

                                                   
hitster  wrote:                
I  guess  before  the  tank  cycles...i  will  cycle  off    Chuckle  
 
 "Change  water  to  RO"  What  is  RO??  The  only  source  of  water  in  my  place  is  the  Muncipal  Tap  water  which  is  chlorinated  but  Chlorine  says  bye  bye  in  a  day...
 Hits                

 
 Ro  is  Reverse  Osmosis  water  -  youu  general  high  end  home  water  purification  systems  are  all  RO.
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hitster
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Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Mumbai

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: am i cycling Reply with quote

 guys  
 
 in  short,  has  my  tank  begun  the  cycling  process  or  i  gotto  do  something  about  it?
 
 hit
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hitster
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Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 203
Location: Mumbai

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: sunday Reply with quote

 waiting  for  replies  !
 
 sunday  is  a  slow  day  awat?
 
 hits
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