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Opinion on T5HO kits
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royalbijoy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Hello  All,
 
                      My  friend  recently  consulted  me  before  investing  in  planted  tank  lights(his  tank  is  2  ft  deep  and  4  feet  in  length).  I  made  him  give  up  on  LED  floodlights  after  the  bad  experience  I  had  with  them.  We  went  to  our  LFS  and  he  showed  us  a  T5HO  (4x54W)  branded  aquazonic.  Attaching  a  pic  of  the  reflector.  I  asked  him  to  wait  a  day  pr  two  before  investing  in  it  as  these  reflectors  do  not  have  individual  reflectors  for  each  tube.  They  have  a  a  common  reflector  for  all  the  4  tubes.  The  LFS  kept  arguing  that  it  was  the  best  in  the  market  and  that  you  do  not  need  individual  reflectors(My  engineering  background  didn't  please  me  with  the  answer).  He  even  showed  his  beautiful  tanks  and  asked  us  to  comment  how  he  could  get  that  heavy  growth,  without  ample  lights.  
 
 Does  anyone  have  experience  with  these  kinds  of  T5HO  lights?  
 
 I  discussed  with  my  friend  and  then  we  went  to  a  couple  of  light  shops  looking  for  t5  reflectors.  Most  of  them  don't  order  1  or  two  units  as  they  manufacture  in  bulk  and  my  requirement  was  not  something  that  they  could  sell  like  hotcakes.  One  of  them  had  the  reflector  we  were  looking  for.   He  told  me  it  was  not  economical  for  them  to  make  it,  though  he  agreed  to  make  2  sets.  
 
 The  advantage  -  The  complete  reflector  and  light(2  x  54W)  will  cost  less  than  2k.  If  I  spend  close  to  3k,  I  get  a  4x54W  T5HO  with  individual  reflectors.  They  are  not  made  for  aquariums(no  clamps  and  stuff),  but  are  rectangular  and  can  be  placed  on  top  of  the  tank.  The  important  thing  -  they  got  individual  reflectors....Any  suggestions  anyone?  Please  see  the  attached  pics.  The  reflectors  we  saw  at  the  light  shop  will  need  customization  as  we  do  not  need  the  perpendicular  strips  in  between  the  light(meant  to  stop  glare  when  you  use  them  in  buildings)
 
 The  aquazonic  one  we  saw  at  LFS  -  
 Similar  reflectors  we  saw  at  the  light  shop  -  
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Nidhi
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Bijoy,  I  don't  under  stand  the  logic  behind  your  engineering  brains  racking  over  individual  reflectors..
 It  doesn't  matter  whether  it  has  a  individual  or  common  reflector...  as  long  as  the  reflective  material  is  good.
 so  don't  bother  about  it  and  buy  it..  and  save  the  headache  of  customizing  those  industrial  lights,  any  way  they  will  look  more  bulky  than  the  aquarium  lights..
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josyjames
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Bijoy,
 
 Its  good  to  have  individual  reflectors  for  each  light.  But  you  would  hardly  find  individual  reflectors  in  the  lfs  branded  lighting  units.  If  you  are  ready  to  fabricate  the  commercial  light,  then  its  good  to  have  individual  reflectors.  Its  an  added  advantage  with  having  individual  reflectors  for  each  tubes.
 
 But  you  could  still  do  away  with  one  reflectors  for  set  of  tubes.  Check  these  lights  which  I  have  done  for  my  sisters  tank
 
 
 
 The  unit  have  4x55Watts  PLL  and  I  had  used  the  4.5"  parabolic  reflector  from  Philips.  I  flattened  at  one  end  and  joined  two  reflectors  together.  And  the  lighting  unit  is  doing  very  well.  The  tank  is  doing  very  well  with  the  lighting  unit  with  the  parabolic  reflectors.
 
 More  pics
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juanico
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 it  does  matter  whether  you  have  individual  reflectors  or  one  common.
 
 the  best  option  are  individual  reflectors:  they  are  designed  to  focus  all  the  light  of  a  bulb  down  (into  the  tank).
 using  a  common  one  will  cause  some  losses  due  to  shading  (the  bulbs  shade  the  light  which  comes  from  the  reflector)  and  not  focused  light  diffusion.
 
 i  can't  tell  you  how  much  difference  it  makes,  but  if  you  have  the  choice  to  buy  some,  then  go  for  individual  reflectors.


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saikumar
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Hey,  I  just  did  that,  but  actually  just  moved  away  from  individual  reflector  concept.  Majorly  because  of  space  issues.  Now  I  can  cramm  in  extra  choke  and  extra  PLL.
 
 There  is  one  more  thing  though.  With  indvidual  reflectors  the  light  majorly  would  fall  right  straight  down.  Good  and  fine  for  plants.  But  when  you  have  a  wider  spread  the  reflection  off  plants  and  fish  should  be  a  bit  more  due  to  the  angle,  thats  when  stuff  look  brighter  to  the  eye.(major  drawback  of  little  LEDs)
 
 For  me  as  long  as  light  is  not  spilling  outside  the  glass  box(or  too  much  on  glass  faces)  I  am  happy...  you  should  be  too  Smile,  and  plants  anyways...
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royalbijoy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

                                                   
Nidhi  wrote  (View  Post):                
Bijoy,  I  don't  under  stand  the  logic  behind  your  engineering  brains  racking  over  individual  reflectors..
 It  doesn't  matter  whether  it  has  a  individual  or  common  reflector...  as  long  as  the  reflective  material  is  good.
 so  don't  bother  about  it  and  buy  it..  and  save  the  headache  of  customizing  those  industrial  lights,  any  way  they  will  look  more  bulky  than  the  aquarium  lights..                

 
 I  think  you  need  to  read  a  little  more  about  individual  T5  reflectors  to  understand  how  it  improves  the  PAR  reading  at  the  substrate.  
 Since  you  mentioned  that  they  don't  make  much  difference,   its  a  difference  of  20PAR  units  for  my  tank(24  inch  deep).  
 
 Whether  its  a  huge  difference?  If  you  got  a  tank  <  15  inches,  doesn't  much  difference  as  you  will  still  be  in  the  high/medium  lit  tank  zone.(Note  the  exponential  graph).  If  you  have  a  24  inch  deep  tank,  it  makes  a  difference.  
 
 See  the  attached  graph(real  PAR  measurements)  to  understand  the  different  reflector  efficiencies.  The  fair  reflectors  refer  to  single  reflector  for  the  entire  fixture  whereas  good  ones  have  parabolic  reflectors  for  each  tube.  So  if  I  had  a  24  inch  deep  tank,  having  those  parabolic  reflectors  for  each  tube  will  shift  me  from  low  light  to  medium  light  zone.
 
 The  logic  -  these  are  all  cylindrical  tubes  which  dissipate  light  360  deg  across  the  circumference.  ie  for  a  54W,  28  W  goes  up  and  28W  goes  straight  into  the  tank.  
 1.  A  single  reflector  will  reflect  a  good  part  of  it  back  on  the  tube.
 2.  A  good  part  of  the  light  hits  on  the  neighboring  tube.  This  is  all  wasted  light.  
 
 See  attached  picture  I  created  for  your  reference.
 
 
 Well  if  you  just  believe  the  shop  keeper,  you  eventually  end  up  with  a  low  end  product  which  you  had  to  buy  just  because  you  didn't  know  about  other  options.  That's  engineering,  I  suppose
.
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royalbijoy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Wow  josy,  that's  a  great  DIY  reflector  you  built.  I  am  inspired  by  your  idea.  I  just  checked  with  my  friend.  He  said  there  are  some  aluminum  fabricators  who  can  get  this  kind  of  stuff  done(He's  done  it  earlier).  Just  need  to  get  them  the  specs  and  would  cost  half  of  the  branded  ones.  Another  advantage  is  that  you  get  aluminum  metal  and  not  aluminum  coated  material  as  most  branded  ones  here  sell.  Just  planning  to  make  ones  like  this.
 
 
 To  me,  if  a  LFS  sells  the  single  reflector  for  each  tube,  even  at  a  higher  price,  its  a  good  deal  considering  the  fact  that  you  got  the  right  product  for  the  watts  you  are  burning  every  hour.  With  EB  rates  going  up,  its  real  important  to  optimize  on  the  design.  If  a  good  reflector  can  save  you  one  tube(3*54W)  instead  of  (4x54W)  ,  that's  where  engineering  pays  off......
 
 Anyone  made  a  DIY  T5Ho  with  reflectors?  Please  send  me  snaps  of  the  reflectors.  We  get  real  good  stuff  outside  India(they  sell  the  individual  reflectors  separately),  but  here  the  choices  are  limited.  At  least  here  in  Chennai.....
 
 This  is  one  of  the  best  designs.  But  hard  to  fabricate.....
 
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Nidhi
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Ok.  Got  the  point,  Thanks  for  explaining  it   Thumb Up.
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royalbijoy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Cheers.  I  think  we  are  lagging  behind  in  T5HO  lights  here  in  India.  I  went  to  some  of  the  biggest  wholesale  dealers  in  Chennai  
 and  none  stalked  them.  Even  though  some  sell  the  tube  with  a  fitting,  reflectors  for  T5HO  is  unheard  of  among  them.  
 Hoping  someone  will  start  manufacturing  the  good  ones  for  our  market.
 
 I  had  my  opinion  shared  with  one  of  the  American  planted  tank  experts  and  he  was  of  the  opinion  that  3x54W  T5HO  would  be  
 perfect  for  my  tank.  I  just  don't  require  4x54  if  I  had  individual  reflectors,  parabolic  shaped.  The  above  graph  clearly  points  that  out.  The  readings  are  for  a  single  T5Ho  and  if  you  have  more  than  one,  you  can  multiple  by  that  number.  With  good  reflectors,  using  3  T5Ho  will  elevate  my  tank  to  high  lit  zone.  To  me  that's  54W  of  monthly  saving  .  
 Waiting  for  manufacturers  now.  Smile  Does  anyone  reckon  seeing  those  good  reflectors  anywhere  in  Chennai?
 Worst  case  I  will  have  to  go  for  DIY,  but  that's  pain  in  the  neck  as  Nidhi  rightly  said.  Outside


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Madan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Have  you  factored  in  the  cost  of  replacement  of  the  T5HO  tubes  every  year  ?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Have  you  factored  in  the  cost  of  replacement  of  the  T5HO  tubes  every  year  ?                

 
 the  replacement  recommendation  applies  for  old  bulbs  or  colour  series  of  7xx,  6xx...
 
 if  you  go  for  the  8xx  or  9xx  colour  series,  e.g.  865,  965  then  this  does  not  apply  any  more.
 they  loose  some  5-8%  of  their  power  within  the  first  weeks,  and  after  that  they  are  stable  for  their  whole  operating  life.
 
 so  no  replacement  needed  till  they  break
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juanico
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

                                                   
juanico  wrote  (View  Post):                
                                                 
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Have  you  factored  in  the  cost  of  replacement  of  the  T5HO  tubes  every  year  ?                

 
 the  replacement  recommendation  applies  only  for  old  bulbs  or  colour  series  of  7xx,  6xx...
 
 if  you  go  for  the  8xx  or  9xx  colour  series,  e.g.  865,  965  then  this  does  not  apply  any  more.
 they  loose  some  5-8%  of  their  power  within  the  first  weeks,  and  after  that  they  are  stable  for  their  whole  operating  life.
 
 so  no  replacement  needed  till  they  break                
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royalbijoy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Yep.  The  wholesale  dealers  here  sell  them  for  under  200  bucks.
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royalbijoy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 I  am  sure  its  gonna  be  one  of  those  Chinese  again  who  will  come  up  with   individual  reflectors.  Its  a  pity  we  do  not  have
 Indian  companies  in  this  segment.....  Sad  .  The  market  is  dominated  by  Chinese  companies  and  few  German  ones(at  least  they  sell  good  products).
 For  eg:,  I  just  ruptured  the  impeller  for  my  aquazonic  canister  filter  and  they  do  not  have  spares  for  it.  Looks  like  my  3k  investment  has  gone  wane  in  just  7  months.
 The  Eheim  and  othe  rGerman  ones  though  costly,  are  easily  serviceable  and  they  give  you  the  mentioned  flow  over  years.  My  canister  flow  reduced  to  like  70%  
 in  these  7  months.  Another  factor  is  the  power  they  take.  Mine  consumes  45W  and  the  flow  is  not  comparable  to  a  25W  Eheim.
 
 Hope  an  Indian  firm  competes  all  these  Chinese  and  am  sure  people  will  like  it.  Deviating  away  from  the  topic,  but  still  something  to  think  about......
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Madan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Opinion on T5HO kits Reply with quote

 Sad
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