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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Compaction risk in crushed controsoil
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Compaction risk in crushed controsoil

 
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PULSARABHI
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:59 pm Post subject: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Hi  friends,
 
 Have  any  of  you  used  crushed  controsoil  in  your  tanks  (not  emersed  ones)?
 I  want  to  try  and  grow  some  MC  and  DHG  in  a  18"x7"x7"  longish  pico  with  4-5mm  controsoil  as  substrate.
 
 I  have  failed  growing  DHG  in  the  past  and  the  larger  controsoil  grain  size  might  have  been  one  of  the  causes.
 So  planning  to  crush  the  same  contro  this  time  and  use.  But  the  risk  of  compaction  worries  me.
 
 Do  you  think  this  would  work?  One  good  thing  I  see  is  since  the  tank  height  is  7"  only,  the  effective  water  column  will  be  hardly  5"  high  considering  2"  substrate.  Will  this  minimize  compaction  by  any  chance?
 
 Please  let  me  know  your  views.  Thanks  in  advance  Smile
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khandar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Dear  Abhi,
 I  doubt  it  poses  a  serious  risk.
 
 That  being  said,  controsoil  comes  in  two  versions  -  and  one  of  them  has  reasonably  small  gain  sizes.  
 The  risk  with  crushing  is  that  you  generate  too  much  particulate  matter,  which  might  settle  on  your  plants  and  attract  BBA.  
 This  was  my  problem  when  I  had  mixed  the  larger  grained  controsoil  with  sand  (to  save  money)  and  used  it.  There  would  be  particles  flying  around  the  tank  most  of  the  time.  That  was  irritating!
 
 I  would  suggest  a  layer  of  aquasoil  (powder  form)  as  an  alternative.  But  I  guess  you  have  already  considered  it.
 
 Thanks,  
 Arin
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PULSARABHI
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Hi  Arin,
 
 Thanks  for  your  response.  
 I  am  aware  of  the  2mm  version  of  controsoil  but  want  to  avoid  investing  more  on  substrate  and  see  if  I  can  re-use  what  I  have  already.  
 You  are  bang  on  about  the  extra  particulate  matter,  but  do  you  think  I  can  mitigate  that  by  doing  a  DSM  first?  
 I  have  some  osmocote  tablets  handy  to  provide  the  initial  nutrition  during  dry  start.  
 Do  you  think  using  DSM  I  can  pull  this  off  without  debris  floating  around  when  flooded?
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PULSARABHI
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Anybody?  Smile
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khandar
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Dear  Abhi,
 Sorry  about  the  delay.  
 I  don't  get  time  to  browse  as  much  as  earlier.   Razz  
 But  I  see  what  you  are  trying  to  say.  
 DSM  will  help  you  root  the  MC  and  DHG  and  should  resolve  the  issue  of  flying  debris.  
 Although  I'm  personally  not  a  big  fan  of  DSM  (because  of  my  failures),  its  probably  an  idea  worth  a  shot.  
 I  can  only  see  problems  when  you  might  be  uprooting  plants  and  trimming  them  severely.  
 But  I  guess  those  dust  clouds  can  be  minimized  by  doing  things  slowly  and  gently.  
 
 FYI,  I  also  did  not  get  good  mileage  with  DHG  with  regular  aquasoil.  It  was  fine  till  the  first  trim.
 Best  of  luck,  and  keep  us  posted.  
 Thanks,  
 Arin
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PULSARABHI
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Dear  Arin,
 
 No  no  no,  dont  be  sorry  and  all  please,  its  perfectly  fine   Smile  
 What  you  said  makes  a  lot  of  sense  again.  
 I  have  also  not  had  much  success  with  earlier  DSM/emersed  setups.  There  were  many  control  variables  like  humidity,  grain  size,  lights,  temperature  etc  and  I  wasn't  sure  which  one  caused  the  failure   Crying or Very sad  
   
 For  the  time  being,  I  have  made  a  small  emersed  setup  with  crushed  controsoil  and  MC  and  DHG  to  see  if  the  roots  grow  any  better.  I  mist  it  twice  a  week  and  have  it  covered  with  cling-wrap  with  tiny  holes  for  gas  exchange.
 I  plan  to  give  it  couple  of  weeks  to  settle  and  then  check  the  root  growth,  hoping  to  see  better  results  because  of  smaller  grain  size.
 
 As  for  the  actual  tank  setup,  may  be  I  should  wait  for  monsoon  to  arrive,  that  way  I  can  rule  out  the  temperature/humidity  variables  at  least.
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Preeths
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

                                                   
PULSARABHI  wrote  (View  Post):                
Dear  Arin,
 
 No  no  no,  dont  be  sorry  and  all  please,  its  perfectly  fine   Smile  
 What  you  said  makes  a  lot  of  sense  again.  
 I  have  also  not  had  much  success  with  earlier  DSM/emersed  setups.  There  were  many  control  variables  like  humidity,  grain  size,  lights,  temperature  etc  and  I  wasn't  sure  which  one  caused  the  failure   Crying or Very sad  
   
 For  the  time  being,  I  have  made  a  small  emersed  setup  with  crushed  controsoil  and  MC  and  DHG  to  see  if  the  roots  grow  any  better.  I  mist  it  twice  a  week  and  have  it  covered  with  cling-wrap  with  tiny  holes  for  gas  exchange.
 I  plan  to  give  it  couple  of  weeks  to  settle  and  then  check  the  root  growth,  hoping  to  see  better  results  because  of  smaller  grain  size.
 
 As  for  the  actual  tank  setup,  may  be  I  should  wait  for  monsoon  to  arrive,  that  way  I  can  rule  out  the  temperature/humidity  variables  at  least.                

 
 You  need  to  mist  it  daily.  A  covered  top  with  small  holes  does  not  provide  much  ventilation,  There  will  be  no  air  movement  at  all.  Add  CO2  using  your  normal  diffuser  or  just  the  tube.
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PULSARABHI
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Thanks  Preetam,  but  I  have  seen  mold  growth  upon  daily  misting  in  my  earlier  setups,  hence  planning  to  do  it  less  frequently.
 However,  I  am  not  sure  if  controsoil  had  something  to  do  with  the  mold  growth.
 
 Regarding  air  movement,  this  is  what  my  naive  understanding  was  till  now,  please  correct  me  if  any  of  this  is  wrong:
 -  Air  has  over  300  ppm  of  CO2  and  we  don't  need  additional  CO2  for  emersed  setups.
 -  More  than  aeration,  the  tiny  holes  are  meant  to  aid  the  regulation  of  CO2  within  and  outside  the  covered  setup.  During  photosynthesis,  plants  consume  CO2  and  say  300  ppm  becomes  270ppm  as  a  result  of  this,  these  holes  will  make  sure  this  imbalance  can  be  automatically  balanced.  This  also  avoids  the  daily  manual  work  of  opening  the  cover  for  gas  exchange.
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Preeths
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Co2  is  heavier  than  air  so  sinks  to  the  bottom  of  the  tank,  In  the  tank  plants  will  use  the  CO2  after  which  there  will  be  a  scarcity  of  C02.  There  will  be  hardly  any  flow  of  air.  Co2  is  not  evenly  spread  so  expecting  the  holes  to  establish  equilibrium  is  not  doable  in  such  a  small  scale.  So  if  you  inject  Co2  into  the  tank  and  keep  5mm-8mm  along  one  of  the  edge  open  it  will  give  better  results.  Since  most  mold  grows  better  in  dark  environments,  longer  duration  of  lighting  will  prevent  mold  from  growing.
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Karthik1521
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Hi  Abhi,
 
 I  was  reading  through  an  forum  where  Tom  Barr  had  described  his  DSM.
 Folks  were  discussing  about  a  Green  House  effect  which  enables  self  regulation  of  the  gas  exchanges.
 
 Please  find  the  link  below:
 http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/42183-DSM-Dry-start-method-for-starting-a-new-planted-tank
 
 Hope  this  helps!
 
 Thanks,
 Karthik
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 @Preeths  -  This  is  an  interesting  fact.  However,  this  pops  another  silly  question  in  my  mind.  If  CO2  is  heavier  than  air,  then  does  that  mean  the  entire  CO2  in  our  atmosphere  stays  close  to  the  earth's  surface?  
 For  instance,  say  this  CO2  cloud  is  concentrated  in  a  region  around  100  feet  high  starting  from  the  earth's  surface  (at  ~300  ppm  concentration),  doesn't  that  mean  any  imbalance  within  this  region  (my  emersed  setup  with  ~270  ppm  CO2  for  example)  will  be  automatically  regulated?
 You  dont  really  have  to  answer  this,  because  I  am  not  sure  if  this  is  even  a  valid  question   Chuckle  
 I  am  just  thinking  out  loud,  that's  all   Smile  
 
 And  for  the  longer  duration  of  lighting,  I  am  afraid  how  it  will  turn  out  once  I  flood  the  tank.  From  what  I  have  read  from  Tom  Barr,  George  Farmer's  journals,  there  should  be  minimal  or  no  changes  to  any  of  the  parameters  once  we  flood  a  DSM  tank.  This  is  to  pose  minimal  shock  to  the  plants  that  are  now  transitioning  from  emersed  to  submersed  (very  reaso6n  we  need  to  bump  up  the  CO2  as  well).  This  means  I  should  not  change  my  lighting  too  much  from  what  it  was  pre-flooding.  How  have  you  managed  this  in  your  tank?  Thanks  so  much  for  all  the  knowledge  you  have  shared  so  far   Smile  
 
 @Karthik1521  -  hey  Karthik  thanks  for  that  link,  I  have  actually  gone  through  that  before  and  its  one  of  my  inspirations  to  go  DSM   Very Happy   Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

                                                   
PULSARABHI  wrote  (View  Post):                
@Preeths  -  This  is  an  interesting  fact.  However,  this  pops  another  silly  question  in  my  mind.  If  CO2  is  heavier  than  air,  then  does  that  mean  the  entire  CO2  in  our  atmosphere  stays  close  to  the  earth's  surface?  
 For  instance,  say  this  CO2  cloud  is  concentrated  in  a  region  around  100  feet  high  starting  from  the  earth's  surface  (at  ~300  ppm  concentration),  doesn't  that  mean  any  imbalance  within  this  region  (my  emersed  setup  with  ~270  ppm  CO2  for  example)  will  be  automatically  regulated?
 You  dont  really  have  to  answer  this,  because  I  am  not  sure  if  this  is  even  a  valid  question   Chuckle  
 I  am  just  thinking  out  loud,  that's  all   Smile  
 
                 

 
 Wind  takes  care  of  that.  In  an  enclosed  system  these  will  not  really  count.   Its  an  over  simplified  answer...  here  goes...  The  simplest  example  I  can  think  of  is  muddy  river  water.  put  in  in  a  glass  and  it  separates  into  a  layer  of  mud  at  the  bottom  and  clear  water  on  top.
 
 Co2  is  one  of  the  dangers  in  deep  cave  systems.  It  collects  at  the  low  level  tunnels  and  can  trap  and  kill  unsuspecting  visitors.
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PULSARABHI
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Aug 01, 2014
Posts: 250
Location: Malleswaram, Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Compaction risk in crushed controsoil Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  the  clarity  @Preeths,  I  will  give  the  Co2  a  shot  with  my  next  DSM  attempt   Smile
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