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LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments
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MANOJ2489
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Hi  Guys,
 
 I'm   new  to  the  forum  and  the  hobby  as  well.  Started  by  the  beginning  of  this  year.  Had  a  DIY  setup  LED  with  my  limited  knowledge  which  emitted  low  light  and  plants  with  low  light  seems  to  be  fine  (was  wondering  why  other  plants  died,  and  after  going  through  the  forum  realized  that  light  was  not  sufficient).  The  lights  gave  up  on  me  recently  and  since  was  busy  with  the  work  schedule  past  couple  of  months  was  not  able  to  take  care  of  my  tank.  (Been  tryin  to  post  pics,  but  have  no  clue  as  how  to  do  it).
 
 So,  the  point  is  i'm  trying  to  start  it  all  again  and  i  currently  have  a  tank  that  is  measuring  85LX36bX43H.  Below  are  my  questions,
 1.  Got  a  lot  of  doubts  over  these  1W  leds  and  saw  some  other  pages  dealin  with  5W  and  10W  Leds.
 
 https://www.amazon.in/CREE-XM-L-WHITE-Power-Emitter/dp/B071J71Q8T/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1512699969&sr=8-13&keywords=Cree
 
 https://www.amazon.in/Generic-Power-Emitter-20mm-White/dp/B071W55M5V/ref=pd_sbs_328_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9JMSH3BPSAERX8VR6YDK
 
 Planning  to  do  2  rows  with  a  mixture  of  both  the  5W  and  10W  Led.  3  10W  in  the  first  row  and  2  5W  inbtwn  and  viceversa  for  the  second  row.  Just  wanted  to  know  if  it  would  work.  If  so  please  help  me  out  with  the  driver  i  need  to  choose.  What  is  the  V  and  W  required.  Planned  to  do  pressurised  CO2.
 
 2.  If  the  above  setup  is  a  no-no  the  please  help   me  out  with  a  layout  which  will  help  my  tank.  i  don't  want  too   many  Leds  and  hence  the  high  power  less  number  option  i  chose.  Don't  want  it  to  be  too  fancy.
 
 3.  So  i  was  surfing  the  web  and  saw  many  posts  related  to  lighting  which  claims  that  even  led  light  bulbs  which  has  a  rating  of  6500K  with  anything  greater  than  10W  will  pass  for  a  high  lighting  and  is  sufficient  for  high  requirement  plant  growth  even.
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hKbdw_MSRA&t=233s
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOvNTyo1RRI
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5RbCO9_6-Y
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQEt8W9zIvQ&t=83s
 
 And  some  even  claim  that  CFL  works  too.  I  even  planned  to  get  one  before  coming  here.  
 
 So,  if  some  one  is  able  to  help  me  out  with  the  above  i'll  be  grateful.  
 
 
 Thanks,
 manoj.
 9994471086
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Preeths
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 You  need  to  understand  that  LED's  are  binned  at  85  degrees.  The  light  output  at  that  temperature  and  at  full  power  is  used  to  measure  the  output  and  color  temperature.  
 
 Using  the  same  wattage  LED  will  help  you  use  the  same  driver  across  all  LED's.
 
 The  3W  Cree's  shown  in  the  link  are  fake.  
 
 Check  the  3W  Cree  lamp  on  Cree's  website  or  look  at  You  tube  to  identify  real  and  fake  Cree's
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Preeths
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Any  Light  -  CFL,  PLL,  T5,  T8,  MH,  LED,  incandescent,  will  work  as  long  as  it  puts  out  sufficient  Lumens  so  that  plants  can  grow.  All  plants  have  the  capability  to  adapt  to  any  of  the  light  sources  we  use.
 
 I  started  with  100W  incandescence  Bulbs.  MH  was  too  expensive  for  me,  so  used  CFL's  then  moved  on  to  PLL's.
 
 Now  I  exclusively  use  DIY  CREE  LED's,  but  have  a  back  up  of  PLL  in  case  of  emergencies.
 
 Its  my  opinion,  But  i  believe  CO2  is  more  important  that  LIGHT.  If  you  don't  have  pressurized  CO2  don't  worry  about  your  lighting,  plants  will  grow  slowly  irrespective  of  how  much  light  you  use.  My  suggestion  is  to  first  invest  in  a  CO2  setup  then  worry  about  your  lighting.
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MANOJ2489
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:33 am Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Thanks  Preeths  for  the  reply.
 
 Can  you  share  me  the  link  where  you  bought  your  LEds?  and  also  pics  of  your  design  will  help  me  a  lot.
 
 As  to  the  driver,  from  what  i  understood  if  i  have  2*3W  and  2*5W  leds  i  need  to  get  a  driver  which  supplies  atleast  16  W  (  and  the  cumulative  Voltage  of  the  Leds  included)  for  a  series  connection.  i've  tried  going  through  many  post  but  all  sounds  greek  and  latin  to  me.  
 
 Or  is  it  like  this.  if  i  have  3*5W  Leds  all  i  need  to  get  is  a  driver  that  will  supply  5W  is  sufficient.  Your  inputs  will  help  me  a  lot.
 
 And  as  to  the  CO2,  i'm  getting  it  by  the  end  of  this  month.  The  setup  is  killing  my  wallet.  So  planned  to  get  it  one  by  one.   So  i've  looked  upon  alliexpress  for  regulators  with  solenoid,  but  my  doubt  is  if  i  get  it  from  US  will  there  be  a  difference  in  the  mouth  dia  when  compared  to  the  cylinder  we  get  here?  If  so  then  what  dimension  do  i  need  to  look  out  for  and  what  is  the  type  of  cylinder  do  i  need  to  get  here?
 
 Sorry  for  sooo  many  questions,  i'm  a  practical  learner  and  its  very  difficult  for  me  to  find  something  which  is  very  easy  to  understand.
 
 
 Thanks,
 Manoj.
 9994471086.
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Da_vipin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 Adding  to  what  Preetam  has  already  said,  for  your  tank  size  I'll  recommend  atleast  20  x  3w  LEDs.  That  makes  2  rows  of  10  LEDs  each.  Using  fewer  higher  watt  LEDs  gives  issue  with  light  spread  and  may  also  give  an  undesirable  spotlight  effect.
 
 LEDs:
 If  you  have  ways  to  buy  directly  from  US,  then  you  can  get  original  binned  LEDs  from  online  stores  available  there.  I'm  using  original  philips  luxeon  rebels  bought  from  US  on  my  main  tank.  However  for  other  tanks  I'm  using  CREEs  which  are  claimed  to  be  original  and  I  really  see  no  difference  in  plant  growth.  IMO  Original  vs  Fake  debates  are  only  for  peace  of  mind.  As  preetam  has  mentioned  and  i  have  experienced,  plants  adapt  to  available  light.  May  be  the  fake  ones  doesnt  deliver  the  claimed  lumens  and  are  a  bit  off  in  spectrum  but  they  do  grow  plants!
 
 Drivers:
 You  have  two  options  here,
 i)  buy  a  dedicated  AC  LED  driver  like  this:  http://in.element14.com/mean-well/lpc-35-700/led-driver-ac-dc-cc-0-7a-48v/dp/2114213
 ii)  or  buy  Meanwell  LDD  DC-DC  buck  LED  drivers  alongwith  a  AC  to  DC  SMPS.
 
 For  option  1,  the  product  I  listed  delivers  700ma  Constant  current  with  48V  max  voltage.  So  you'll  need  2  drivers  to  power  20  LEDs.  Also  they  are  700ma,  so  you  will  compromise  on  brightness,  good  luck  in  finding  a  48V  -  1000ma  rated  driver.
 
 For  option  2,  you'll  need  2  DC-DC  meanwell  LDD  and  a  48V  DC  power  supply.
 
 Drivers  are  the  costliest  components  in  DIY  LED  projects,  and  even  more  difficult  to  get  a  proper  one.  Research  and  see  what  you  can  arrange.
 
 Heatsinks:
 Buy  a  proper  aluminium  heatsink,  not  hardware  shop  aluminium  channels.  You  may  have  to  hunt  locally  to  get  atleast  30"  long  x  2  heatsinks.
 
 Now  regarding  your  other  queries  above,  your  first  statement  is  true,  i.e  you'll  need  atleast  16w  driver.  The  standard  thread  for  CO2  in  US  is  CGA  320  and  in  Asia  it  is  W21.80  i  guess.  So  buy  all  your  CO2  related  stuff  locally.
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MANOJ2489
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:16 am Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Hi  Vipin,
 
 Thanks  for  the  response.
 
 Where  did  you  get  this  CREE  from?  The  US?
 
 I  found  a  website  where  they  are  selling  philips  rebel  https://www.mouser.in/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=189035271,  is  that  what  you  are  talking  about?
 
 And  for  CREE  all  i  can  get  is  the  amazon  results.
 
 And  now  considering  cost  effectiveness,  20  LEDs  will  cost  me  around  3000  min  +  2  drivers  1200min.  +  heatsink  (no  idea  as  to  how  much  it  costs)  +  timer  600  which  gives  a  total  of  approximately  6000K  minimum.  From  what  i  have  inquired,  readymade  fixtures  is  also  around  the  same  figures.  Can  you  please  make  me  understand  how  the  DIY  setup  is  considered  as  cost  effective  (apart  from  the  thrill  of  building  something  all  by  yourself  from  scratch)?  Or  am  i  getting  the  price  range  all  wrong.
 
 I  know  i  need  to  learn  a  lot  and  that  is  why  reaching  out  to  you  guys  for  help.  the  thing  is  this  is  my  2nd  lighting  project.  My  first  one  was  made  of  20  1w  LEDs  which  was  a  mixture  of  both  white  and  blue,  and  i  was  an  amateur  at  that  time  and  i  was  not  aware  of  all  these  K's  and  V's  and  W's.  The  total  cost  was  around  1800  K  (no  driver  and  the  heatsink  was  a  channel  bought  from  the  local  shop).  Still  i  was  able  to  grow  some  plants,  but  was  not  able  to  grow  carpet  and  few  high  light  requirement  plants  and  i  even  had  baking  soda  and  citric  acid  DIY  setup.  The  setup  lasted  for  almost  9  months.  This  is  the  point  which  encouraged  me  to  go  full  gangsta  into  the  hobby  where  i  can  cut  around  corners  using  DIY  setups.
 
 But  considering  the  cost  calculation  above,  now  i'm  beginning  to  think  that  whats  the  point  of  doing  all  these  DIY  if  its  the  same  cost  as  a  readymade  stuff,  which  also  makes  me  worry  too  much  about  my  wallet  loosing  weight.  Actually  i  think  this  is  the  point  where  most  of  the  amateur  hobbyists  loose  interest  and  hope.
 Personally  i  don't  mind  spending  some  extra  cash  to  get  what  i  need,  but  i  can  afford  that  only  upto  a  point.  And  there  is  a  myth  which  makes  people  think  that  DIY  cuts  your  expenses  by  half,  which  needs  to  be  addressed.  
 
 Again  coming  back  to  my  doubts,  my  CO2  is  being  taken  care  of.  Ordered  a  2kg  cylinder  and  a  regulator  with  solenoid  setup  which  i  hopefully  get  by  end  of  this  month.  But  i  have  my  concerns  in  the  lighting  setup.  So,  tell  me,  which  is  the  best  lighting  fixture  cost  wise  or  effectiveness  wise.  And  availability  is  also  a  huge  factor  here.  Since  you  guys  have  a  lot  of  knowledge  and  experience  it  will  be  helpful  for  newbies  like  me  if  you  could  even  write  a  book  with  all  the  instructions.  I'll  do  the  first  order  Rock On
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MANOJ2489
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Or  am  i  worrying  too  much?  Like  preetam  said  earlier  in  this  post  i  need  to  concentrate  on  my  CO2  and  ferts  dosage  and  worry  less  about  lighting.
 
 If  so,  then  i'll  get  comething  like  these,
 
 https://www.amazon.in/PHILIPS-LED-14W-1400LUMEN-STELLAR/dp/B00TNBGL78/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1512851644&sr=8-9&keywords=6500k+led+bulb
 or
 https://www.amazon.in/iMee-Watts-Unbreakable-Lumens-Light/dp/B0764FCDRH/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1512851644&sr=8-7&keywords=6500k+led+bulb
 
 Please  suggest.
 
 Thanks,
 Manoj.
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Da_vipin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 If  your  priority  is  to  grow  carpet  plants,  you  can  do  so  without  LEDs.  PLLs  and  T5HOs  are  tried  and  trusted.  But  the  bulbs  needs  annual  change.
 
 If  your  priority  is  to  save  a  bit  on  electricity  cost,  gain  control  over  brightness  and  avoid  annual  bulb  changes,  you  can  choose  LEDs  but  that  comes  with  heavy  initial  investment  and  hassles.
 
 I  suggest  you  look  into  PLLs  and  T5HOs  as  well.  Easy  on  the  pocket  and  you  can  save  a  bit  for  buying  hardscape  rocks  and  driftwoods,  ferts  etc.  Enjoy  the  tank  and  simultaneously  if  you  want  to  keep  kill  time,  keep  building  your  LED  fixture.  This  way  u  have  a  PLL  /  T5HO  backup  while  u  r  testing  LEDs.
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Preeths
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 2019
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 I  got  the  CREE  LED's  from  Aliexpress.  About  2  dollars  for  the  XML  -  2  T6
 Everything  else  is  available  in  Bangalore  (Including  CREE  LED's)  there  are  3  CREE  distributors  in  Bangalore  itself.  but  they  do  no  retail  the  stuff.  minimum  purchase  is  1000  pcs  so  could  not  buy  from  them.
 The  heat  sink  was  the  most  expensive  part  for  me.  Almost  1500  for  a  2  foot  Section.  Drivers  can  be  found  at  350/-  or  below  depending  on  the  wattage.  You  can  build  a  50W  system  for  under  3500.
 
 IF  you  don't  mind  being  a  bit  adventurous,  I  would  suggest  you  to  go  for  CREE  XHP  70  12V  chips.  Each  chip  puts  out  4000lm,3  are  sufficuent  for  your  tank.  you  can  use  the  standard  12V  3A  power  supply  that  is  easily  available.  only  catch  is  the  chips  are  the  latest  product  and  cost  about  8-10  dollars  each.
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Preeths
Committed Member of IAH
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Joined: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 2019
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 An  update  about  using  Plant  grow  LED's
 
 Used  20  3  W  Plant  grow  LED's  on  a  shallow  tank  that  was  8  inches  high.  Thank  is  12  inches  wide  and  24  inches  long.
 
 Dry  start  took  3.5  weeks(24  days)  17  hours  of  lighting  every  day  with  addition  of  co2  during  lighting  period.  misted  once  daily.
 
 I  have  flooded  the  tank  2  weeks  back.  Counting  the  days  till  the  scape  is  complete.
 
 Plant  grow  LED's  sped  up  the  dry  start  phase.  Hoping  it  does  the  same  for  the  flooded  phase  too.
 
 After  flooding  the  tank,  the  lighting  period  is  reduced  to  7.5  hours  daily.
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nandy
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1290
Location: Bengaluru

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Aren't  you  using  any  cooling  fans  >
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Preeths
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 2019
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 I  am  not  using  cooling  fans,  the  heat  sink  is  basically  overkill  for  60  watts,  so  it  hardly  gets  warm.
 
 I  was  able  to  grow  the  scape,  and  do  two  rounds  of  trimming.  I  had  issues  with  BGA  considering  that  the  lighting  was  quite  high.  I  will  try  to  attach  a  picture  once  i  get  home.
 
 Plants  were:
 Monte  Carlo
 S  Repens
 AR  Mini
 
 Used  AMAZONIA  substrate
 
 Co2  at  1.5  BPS
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Preeths
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 2019
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 You  get  LED  tube  lights  in  24  inch  and  48  inch  lengths  at  the  same  price  of  a  tube  light  set.  This  is  more  economical  for  starters  and  will  work  for  tanks  up  to  12  -  15  inches  high.  You  will  need  customized  solution  for  taller  tanks.
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nandy
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1290
Location: Bengaluru

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 Can  you  show  a  pic  of  the  led  unit  which  you  are  using?  Just  curious..
 I'm  in  a  process  of  doing  a  DIY  led  for  my  3  feet  planted  tank  and  this  journal  was  of  great  help.
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ramesh_ndyd
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jul 20, 2011
Posts: 39
Location: Navi mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: LED Build Journal - Completed and some experiments Reply with quote

 I  made  diy  lights  using  Cree  xpe  1-5  watts  chips.  Driver  2  in  nos  36  v  50w  1.5  A.
 
 The  results  have  been  excellent.
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