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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Java fern melting
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Java fern melting
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srinath
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:28 am Post subject: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 This  is  my  5x2x2  Ft  running  for  over  6  yrs  with  African  cichlids.  This  tank  runs  with  two  external  filters  Eheim  (2075)  600  and  JBL  1501.  
 
 For  a  long  time  i  always  wanted  to  have  a  cichlid  tank  with  plants  in  them.  
 
 Recently  ordered  10  large  Java  Fern  from  sreepadma,  quarantine  the  plants  for  3  weeks  and  then  moved  them  to  this  tank.  Plants  were  lush  green  while  they  were  in  quarantine  tank.  These  plants  have  been  moved  to  this  tank  for  nearly  60  days  now,  after  a  week  i  noticed  the  leaves  had  started  to  turn  black  /  brown  /  transparent  and  drop.  
 
 After  some  reading  understood  that  it  could  be  due  to  nutrient  deficiency.  Got  myself  the  EI  Pack  from  AquaticJungle  made  a  1l  solution  of  it  and  started  dosing  15ml  daily  for  nearly  3  weeks  now.  
 
 Further  i  read  EI  dosing  is  more  effective  if  tank  is  dosed  with  CO2,  so  for  the  first  week  i  dosed  the  tank  with  5ml  of  glutaraldehyde  25%  every  alternate  day.  As  i  did  not  notice  any  change,  now  i  am  dosing  daily  with  4ml  of  glutaraldehyde  25%  for  the  last  one  week.  Still  i  do  not  see  much  change,  this  image  is  taken  recently.
 
 The  light  on  this  tank  are  simple  led  tube  light  from  Wipro  22w  6500K  (cool  day  light)  nothing  fancy.  During  the  first  week  on  dosing  the  lights  were  on  for  4  hrs,  now  these  are  ON  between  8AM  -  6  PM.
 
 After  all  this  info  can  you  pl  help  me  identify  why  the  plants  are  not  lush  green.  Why  the  leaves  turning  black  /  brown  /  transparent  and  dropping.
 
 Am  i  doing  anything  wrong?  Or  am  i  just  being  impatient?
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Da_vipin
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 What  you  are  experiencing  is  typical  for  Java  Ferns  when  introduced  to  new  environment.  It  is  adjusting  to  new  water  parameters.  It  may  take  a  while  before  it  adopts  and  starts  growing.  Unfortunately  it  can  extend  by  months  or  even  upto  a  year.
 
 It  is  recommended  to  cut  leaves  which  are  in  bad  shape.  The  brown  leaves  may  sprout  tiny  plantlets  if  you  are  patient.
 
 IME  Ferns  has  not  done  well  under  LED  lights.  I  have  grown  them  lush  under  PLLs,  but  after  upgrading  to  LEDs  they  barely  grow.  Frequently  i  throw  them  in  a  filled  bucket  kept  in  balcony.  They  grow  there  nicely  and  I  reintroduce  them  to  tank  once  again.
 
 regards
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srinath
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 Thank  you  Vipin  for  taking  time  to  reply...
 
 If  this  is  normal  with  java  fern,  i  am  wondering  should  i  be  adding  all  those  chemicals  into  the  tank?  Any  suggestions  on  that?  
 
 Although  i  have  not  seen  any  +ive  effect  on  plants,  so  far  i  have  at-least  not  noticed  any  -ive  effects  on  the  fish.  In  fact  i  noticed  a  few  frys  in  tank  over  weekend...
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Da_vipin
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

                                                   
srinath  wrote  (View  Post):                
Thank  you  Vipin  for  taking  time  to  reply...
 
 If  this  is  normal  with  java  fern,  i  am  wondering  should  i  be  adding  all  those  chemicals  into  the  tank?  Any  suggestions  on  that?  
 
 Although  i  have  not  seen  any  +ive  effect  on  plants,  so  far  i  have  at-least  not  noticed  any  -ive  effects  on  the  fish.  In  fact  i  noticed  a  few  frys  in  tank  over  weekend...                

 
 Yes  its  recommended  to  temporarily  hold  back  any  dosing  of  ferts.  However  you  can  add  some  during  regular  water  changes.
 
 regards,
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garothmaan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 try  iron  dosing  and  IMO  lights  are  medium,  ferns  are  low  light  plant  I  suppose
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

                                                   
garothmaan  wrote  (View  Post):                

 try  iron  dosing  and  IMO  lights  are  medium,  ferns  are  low  light  plant  I  suppose
                 

 
 I  am  dosing  both  Macro  and  Micro  from  
 AquaticJungle  and  they  say  "that  the  micro  has  high  concentration  of  Iron  so  you  may  not  need  to  dose  extra  iron  for  red  plants."  
 
 Should  i  still  add  extra  iron  dosing?  If  yes  then  how  much  of  flourish-iron  should  i  be  dosing?
 
 On  lighting,  should  i  reduced  lighting  OR  the  lights  are  not  sufficient?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 Too  many  contradictory  /  conflicting  articles  on  the  web,  some  say  more  light  more  fertilizers  more  co2  while  the  others  say  just  leave  them  alone  without  adding  any  stuff  and  the  plants  will  eventually  settle.
 
 some  pointed  inputs  /  suggestion  are  welcome...  
 
 My  initial  worry  was  that  fish  might  chew  plans  away  but  fish  have  left  plant  alone  i  wonder  if  water  is  killing  them  now...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 This  issue  still  persist,  over  weekend  i  decided  to  trim  off  decaying  leaves  (image  attached),  lights  are  now  turned  off,  continuing  with  dosing  of  fertilizers...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 Generally  these  ferns  prefer  cool  waters.  Do  you  have  temperatures  around  27-28?
 see  if  you  can  add  CO2  or  atleast  get  the  temperature  to  lower
 
 Secondly  those  leaves  will  spring  new  ferns  from  them,  so  dont  just  throw  them  off.  Tie  them  to  a  wood/rock.
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srinath
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 @saikumar  -  thanks  for  the  inputs,  I  do  not  want  to  invest  in  installation  of  CO2  system;  i  am  using  glut  instead.
 
 My  struggle  continues.  As  compared  from  when  these  plants  were  introduced  to  this  tank,  the  density  of  plants  has  gown  down  due  to  leaves  dropping  off,  my  quarantine  tank  has  loads  of  leaves  that  have  developed  plant-lets.  The  reason  i  keep  updating  this  post  is  with  hope  that  i  will  be  able  to  crack  this  eventually;  and  it  might  be  of  help  to  decipher  later.
 
 I  have  dosed  this  tank  with  both  fert  and  glut  for  over  7  weeks  now;  4  weeks  with  lights  ON  and  2  weeks  with  lights  OFF....
 
 Going  by  suggestion  from  above,  from  next  week  i  plan  to  stop  dosing  fertilizers  and  only  add  5ml  glut  every  day  and  keep  the  lights  off...
 
 Some  close  ups  of  the  leaves.  (the  lights  have  only  been  turned  ON  to  capture  these  images)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 Its  almost  4  months  since  these  plants  have  been  in  this  tank;  Every  day  i  notice  at  least  one  dropped  leaf  floating  around...
 
 My  experiment  continues.  As  explained  in  the  previous  posts  the  tank  has  been  on  different  combinations  of  fertilizers  /  Glut  /  lighting,  yet  i  do  not  seem  to  hit  the  sweet  spot!!!  
 
 The  dropping  of  leaves  continues,  but  i  notice  the  leaves  are  now  truing  yellow,  should  i  restart  dosing  of  fertilizers  ?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 I  thought  as  java  fern  were  meant  to  be  low  tech  plants  they  would  grow  if  i  tossed  them  into  a  aquarium  which  had  good  bio  load  and  decent  water  condition.
 
 My  effort  to  keep  it  low  cost  has  not  fetched  good  results.  It  seems  like  i  am  unable  to  grow  these  plants  without  investing  into  accessories.  Over  last  week  i  have  invested  in  DIY  Co2  kit,  co2  diffuser,  Fe  DTPA.
 
 20  gms  of  Fe  DTPA  10%  has  been  mixed  with  1l  water.  planning  to  dose  5ml  twice  weekly.
 
 Restarted  to  dose  fertilizers.  Co2  is  produced  using  citric  acid  +  baking  soda  and  is  running  at  2  bubble  per  sec  between  8  AM  -  6PM.  lights  are  back  ON.  
 
 Hopefully  wanting  to  me  see  this  investment  makes  these  plant  grow  lush...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 The  trouble  continues,  I  now  have  a  bucket  filled  of  dropped  leaves.  some  are  developing  into  new  plant-lets  and  others  are  decaying  in  the  bucket.  
 
 I  am  not  really  sure  what  am  i  doing  wrong  with  the  tank.  
 
 My  fertilizers  (MACRO)  is  a  1L  solution  made  of  
 
 Magnesium  Sulfate  (MgSO4)  -  120GM
 Potassium  Nitrate  (KNO3)  -  80GM
 Potassium  Phosphate  (KH2O4)  -  20GM
 
 (MICRO)  is  a  1L  solution  with  Aquagold  CSM  +  B  -  40GM
 
 also  have  a  1L  IRON  dosing  solution  with  Fe  DTPA(optional)  -  20GM
 
 I  am  currently  dosing  30  ml  of  macro  and  micro  alternatively  every  day.
 
 Ones  weekly  i  also  dose  20  ml  of  Iron  dosing.  
 
 despite  of  all  this,  i  am  still  unable  to  enjoy  the  beauty  of  lush  plant...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

 Sorry  to  see  that  you  are  struggling  still.  I  thought  of  sharing  my  experience  where  my  plants  are  thriving  without  any  major  issues  for  last  3  months.  
 
 I  am  keeping  Java  Ferns  and  Anubias  NaNa,  in  a  simple,  very  very  low  tech,  small  tank.  Its  been  3  months  now  and  things  are  going  ok.  I  dont  have  heavy  lighting  and  using  a  10W  LED,  and  NO  CO2.
 
 Some  key  things  you  double  check:
 1.  Plants  are  planted  on  driftwood  or  rocks.  And  NOT  in  soil.
 2.  Lights  are  very  less  and  minimal.  I  reduced  my  lighting  from  4  hours  to  2  hours  when  I  observed  some  browning  on  Java  Ferns.  If  possible  expose  them  to  natural  lights  too,  by  keeping  tank  near  window
 3.  Do  weekly  30-40%  water  changes
 4.  I  am  dosing  Seachem  Flourish  and  Flourish  Excel,  but  only  2  times  a  week.
 5.  Lastly  see  possibility  of  fish  is  disturbing  the  plants.
 
 narayanang76
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: Java fern melting Reply with quote

                                                   
srinath  wrote  (View  Post):                
The  trouble  continues,  I  now  have  a  bucket  filled  of  dropped  leaves.  some  are  developing  into  new  plant-lets  and  others  are  decaying  in  the  bucket.  
 
 I  am  not  really  sure  what  am  i  doing  wrong  with  the  tank.  
 
 My  fertilizers  (MACRO)  is  a  1L  solution  made  of  
 
 Magnesium  Sulfate  (MgSO4)  -  120GM
 Potassium  Nitrate  (KNO3)  -  80GM
 Potassium  Phosphate  (KH2O4)  -  20GM
 
 (MICRO)  is  a  1L  solution  with  Aquagold  CSM  +  B  -  40GM
 
 also  have  a  1L  IRON  dosing  solution  with  Fe  DTPA(optional)  -  20GM
 
 I  am  currently  dosing  30  ml  of  macro  and  micro  alternatively  every  day.
 
 Ones  weekly  i  also  dose  20  ml  of  Iron  dosing.  
 
 despite  of  all  this,  i  am  still  unable  to  enjoy  the  beauty  of  lush  plant...                

 
 Hi,  I  suggest  that  you  also  introduce  vallisneria,  amazon  swords  etc  besides  your  existing  ferns.  Lush  green  does  not  have  to  be  only  ferns.  Also  try  buying  single  rhizomes  of  ferns  from  different  sources.  Observe  whether  they  too  are  degrading  like  earlier  ones.  May  be  the  new  ones  will  better  adapt  to  your  tank  conditions....
 
 regards
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