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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Denitrator
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Denitrator
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 This  would  be  in  addition  to  the  normal  filter  that  you  have.
 
 The  normal  filters  we  have  would  sieve  out  the  physical  debris,  and  dirt  in  the  mechanical  module.
 
 And  would  reduce  Ammonia  and  nitrITES  to  nitrATES.
 
 The  denitrator  takes  on  from  there.  This  unit  would  reduce  nitrATES.
 
 The  only  method  we  adopt,    to  remove  nitrates,  is  doing  water  changes.  This  should  be  reduced  greatly,  if  this  becomes  a  success.
 
 However,  you  cannot  do  away  with  water  changes  totally.  Depending  on  the  fish  load,  we  could  do  the  water  changes,  for  example,  once  every  3  months,  and  so  on.  We  could  replace  evaporated  water  every  week,  by  top  ups.  
 
 Water  changes  are  necessary  to  replace  lost,  and  used  up  trace  elements,  and  minerals.
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nag
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:37 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nitin:
 
 Take  a  peek  here:
 
 http://www.tetra.de/doc/doc_download.cfm?uuid=96F28C8150BAEA7AF97683FF3F10A4BB&o_file_id=68&o_lang_id=2
 
 Bye,
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bg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:16 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 [quote="nytyn"]
 In  humans,  this  is  commonly  known  as  â€œgas”  or  â€œfarts.”  
 [unquote]
 
 I  would  certainly  not  want  an  equipment  that  fa##s    in  my  aquarium    :wink:  
 
 I  read  description  of  a  denitrator  at  www.thekrib.com,  but  did  not  understand  much.  After  your  explanation  of  the  process  in  layman's  language,    it  makes  much  more  sense  now.  Thanks  a  lot.
 
 The  device  described  at  www.thekrib.com  sounds  much  simpler  than    the  one    you  have  described.  I'm  sure  you  have  seen  the  page  already,  but  just  in  case,
 http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/denitrator.html
 
 Biju  George
 Bangalore
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pappu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:31 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 hello  everybody...i  am  pappu  or  tapas  from  kolkata..
 it  is  my  first  time  to  iah  ,i  have  come  to  say  something  but  dont  exactly  know  that  will  it  be  appreciated  by  anyone  or  not,  but  i  will  try  to  explain  the  denitrator  in  bit  of  my  own  way  which    will  surely  work  from  my  side  but  i  really  do  not  know  about  others.
 so  my  explanation:-
 use  a  powerhead  of  very  low  capacity    water  circulation,and  block  its  main  outlet  by  any  kind  of  thing  ,,may  be  by  homeopathic  bottle  cork  or  whatever  you  find  is  the  best  to  close  the  outlet,  
 this  powerhead  should  have  a  ventury  outlet  on  the  outlet  nozzle  ,,and  now  if  the  outlet  part  is  blocked  by  something  and  submersed  the  head  then  plug  it  on  ,then  what  you  will  observe  ???  that  is  the  head  is  running  but  the  water  from  the  main  nozzle  is  not  comming  out  due  to  the  blokage  but  the  water  is  comming  out  in  pressure  from  the  ventural  part  like  a  jet..
 now  comes  the  main  part.....  Try  to  fit  a  air  pipe  in  that  ventural  out  ,and  this  air  pipe  should  be  approximately  100  ft  long  and  then  fit  a  controller  on  the  other  end  of  that  100  ft.  pipe  so  the  flow  can  be  adjusted  according  to  need  of  yours  
 but  one  thing,that  is      coil  that  pipe  as  small  as  you  can  for  Occupying  less  space  .
 now  put  that  outlet  pipe  on  the  hang  on  filter  and  see  that  the  water  from  the  pipe  drips  slowly  ,slowly  and  fall  on  the  nylon  pad  of  the  hang  on  filter  or  where  ever  it  is  aerobic.  so  again  this  dead  water  solution  will  be  cirtulated  by  the  filter.
 now  let  me  tell  you  what  happens  by  passing  the  water  through  the  air  pipe  of  100ft.  long  ....when  this  water  of  the  tank  is  passed  through  the  air  pipe  of  100ft.  long  slowly  slowly  ,,in  absence  of  oxygen  this  nitrobacter  dies  which  are  present  in  the  water    and  converts  to  nitrogen  gas..which    comes  out  of  the  water  and  mixed  with  the  open  air.
   but  this  system  will  work  only  when  you  put  a  controller  on  the  other  end  or  in  the  middle  of  the  pipe  or  whereever  you  like  ,,becouse  water  has  to  pass  very  slowly  ..
 and  this  denitrification  goes  on  everyday...
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:49 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Pappu,
 Welcome  to  IAH!
 This  is  a  detailed  explanation!    But  do  you  think  killing  nitrobacter  would  be  a  good  idea  on  the  long  run?    Also  have  you  seen  anyone  use  denitrators  without  a  problem  for  a  period  of  time?
 Also  if  the  denitrification  takes  too  much  time  by  that  time  won't  there  be  a  nitrate  build  up  before  the  denitration  takes  place?
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:09 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hey  Pappu[I  think  Tapas  sounds  better]!
 
 That  concept  of  yours  is  cool.  I  think  you  have  grasped  the  concept  of  a  coil  denitrator  very  well.
 
 Theres  actually  a  small  change  here.
 
 The  nitrosomonas,  and  other  aerobic  bacteria  DONT  die  off.  They  are  present  only  in  the  first  few  meters  of  the  tubing,  as  only  there  they  get  the  necessary  oxygen  to  survive.  They  use  up  all  the  available  oxygen,  and  hence  after  that  the  anaerobic  zone  starts.  
 
 The  keyword,  here  is  SLOW  RATE  OF  FLOW.  As  I  have  been  stressing  from  the  beginning,  it  is  very  necessary  that  water  flows  very  very  slowly  thru  this  tube.
 
 I  am  very  convinced  with  this  idea  of  yours,  though  I  wouldnt  like  to  try  and  force  stop  a  powerhead.
 
 The  water  movement  mechanism  has  to  be  done  better.  The  airline  tubing  idea  is  very  cool.  It  can  be  stuffed  into  a  big  jar,  to  make  it  look  compact.
 
 Guys,  come  up  with  some  ideas  for  how  to  drive  water  into  the  tube.  A  flow  rate  of  one  drop  per  second  is  great,  and  should  work  well.  Aerating  the  output  of  the  denitrator  should  be  pretty  easy.  Dont  worry  abou  that!
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:25 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 We  can  keep  the  Denitritrator  (the  tube)  and  in  a  lower  level  than  the  aquarium  with  a  controller  so  that  water  drops  into.    Then  from  the  outlet  of  denitrator  we  can  have  a  denitrated  water  collector.    From  then  we  could  have  a  timer-operated  power  head  or  a  power  head  operating  on  an  overflow  based  system  (one  we  use  to  auto  on/off  motor  for  our  water  tanks)  to  get  water  back  to  the  aquarium.    Denitrated  water  in  the  water  collector  can  be  aerated  to  regain  dissolved  oxygen.
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bg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:07 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 [quote="nytyn"]Hey  Pappu[I  think  Tapas  sounds  better]!
 
 The  keyword,  here  is  SLOW  RATE  OF  FLOW.  As  I  have  been  stressing  from  the  beginning,  it  is  very  necessary  that  water  flows  very  very  slowly  thru  this  tube.
 [unquote]
 
 Hi,
 
 If  the  concern  is  to  adjust  the  flow  rate  to  the  level  of  one  drop  per  second  or  so,
 
 Can  we  not  use  a  dextrose  injection  system  that  hospitals  use?  I  am  referrring  the  IV  fluild  /  glucose  /  dextrose  feeding  bootle  and  tube.
 
 Sorry  if  that  sounded  silly.
 
 
 Biju  George
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:41 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Tapas,
 
 Cool!  You  seem  to  think  like  me!
 
 I  was  in  fact  toying  with  the  idea  of  using  the  same  regulator  thats  used  in  the  drips  bottle,  that  these  hospitals  use  for  the  IV  dextrose  injectors.
 
 And  am  still  thinking  of  how  to  circulate  water  thru  the  whole  thing.  Aeration  is  not  at  all  a  constraint.  It  can  be  taken  care  of  very  easily.
 
 Lets  try  and  break  our  heads  to  get  a  good  idea  to  drive  water  thru  this.
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                

 Tapas,  
 
 Cool!  You  seem  to  think  like  me!  
                 

 
 Sorry,  that  was  for  you,  Biju!
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pappu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:19 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 hello  everybody..goodmorning.
 i  have  tried  this  in  an  aquarium  before  3  years  at  delhi  ,it  is  still  working  in  good  condition,there  is  no  problem  at  all  about    nitrite  level  going  high  becouse  the  flow  rate  of  the  water  is  very  slow  ,exactly  what  u  have  said  one  drop  per  second,  and  u  see  this  is  just  a  drop  and  if  there  is  a  good  thick  matured  padding  system  of  nylom  wool  on  top  ot  the  trickel  or  side  sump  where  there  is  bit  oxygen,  then  this  one  drop  of  water  cannot  bring  the  aquarium    nitrite  level  high  at  all.
 
 there  is  also  a  other  process....
 Take  a  normal  pipe  of  bed  filter  but  it  should  be  long  enough  which  can  come  out  of  the  water  surface  of    aquarium  atleast    2  inch  above.if  necessary  joint  2  pipes  together.
 place  this  in  a  corner  of  the  aquarium  facing  upwards    burried  one  end    with  gravel  and  then  put  nitrex  resin  in  the  pipe  after  that  fill  the  pipe  with    fine  sand  completely  till  the  water  surface  and  even  fill  that  2  inch  extra  part  also.
 now  comes  the  main    part  becouse    there  is  no  oxygen  rich  water  to  pass    through  the  pipe  becouse  the  other  end  is  at  top  of  water,  and  the  resin  is  colonised  by  bacteria  which  are  normally  found  in  aerobic  condition,so  they  are  now  deprived  of  oxygen.  so  now  this  aerobic  bacteria  are  forced  in  the  pipe  to  oxidised  in  anaerobic  condition  ,it  extracts  the  oxygen  it  needs  needs  to  live  from  the  three  oxygen  atom  present  in  the  nitrate  ion  (NO3)and  the  carbon  Nitrex  resin  provides  food  in  the  form  of  carbohydrates.  so  the  net  result  is  nitrate  reduced  into  gases  of  nitroogen,which  then  disappears  harmlessly  at  the  surface  air.by  the  upper  end  of  the  pipe  .
 one  more  thing  can  be  done  on  the  pipe  top  end  ,  that  is  put  a  film  rolls  plastic  box  led  on  the  other  end  and  make  a  small  hole  onthe  top  of  the  led  just  for  escaping  the  gas  upwards.
 occasionally  a  drop  of  rice  curd  can  be  put  from  the  top  of  the  pipe  which  will  be  soluable  and  remain  on  the  pipe  ,,and  from  the  other  end  which  is  burried  aerobic  bacteria  will  enter  for  food    but  will  not  be  able  to  come  back  and  then  the  convertion  is  there  due  to  heavy  population  in  the  pipe.
 this  process  also  i  have  tried  2  years  before  and  is  still  working  well
 hopw  u  will  appreciate.
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:22 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Thats  a  better  idea  dude!  Very Happy
 Where  do  we  get  the  Nitrex  Resin?
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venki25
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nityn
 
 I  faintly  remembered  seeing  a  similar  DIY  somehwere,  searched  now  and  could  not  find  it.  But  however  see  an  informative  page  here
 
 http://www.oscarfish.com/viewtopic.php?t=36207
 
 Do  get  into  the  articles  from  krib,  very  informative.
 
 I  think  you  should  look  into  coiling  of  the  tube.  The  inlet  can  be  from  the  venturi  output  of  a  powerhead  as  pappu  suggested.  You  don't  need  to  block  the  output  completely.  Just  once  blocked  would  let  the  water  out  through  the  venturi  and  when  the  siphon  is  established  the  water  should  flow  continously  and  slowly.  When  the  tubing  is  long  and  coiled  the  flow  rate  should  be  very  slow  after  the  water  has  travelled  a  certain  distance.
 
 My  concept  would  be  a  very  large  PVC  tubing  with  stirps  of  plastic  stuck  in  such  a  way  a  spiraling  coil  of  tubing  is  held  in  place.  The  PVC  piping  must  be  placed  horizontal,  well  below  the  tank  level.
 
 The  Power  Head  must  be  placed  4-5  Inches  below  the  water  level  in  the  tank.  This  way  the  initial  thrust  on  the  outflow  of  the  venturi  will  be  lost  in  teaversing  up  about  4  -  5  Inches.  Then  again  when  the  water  is  dropped  down  to  the  spirally  coiled  tubing  it  will  pick  up  accelaration  to  reach  the  first  few  coils  with  speed  and  keep  the  aeration,  butthereafter  the  oxygenation  is  cut  in  the  middle.
 
 The  only  problem  i  foresee  is  when  there  is  poweroutage  the  flow  to  through  the  venturi  will  be  cut.  Secondly  once  the  water  is  flown  through  the  coil,  i'm  not  sure  if  it  will  force  its  way  into  falling  back  into  the  tank.  I  mean  if  it  can  have  the  thrust  to  fall  traverse  up.
 
 Looks  vague,  but  then  i'm  sure  there  might  be  some  gurus  who  can  prune  it  to  our  requirement.
 
 Regards
 
 Venkatesh.
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venki25
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:58 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Nityn
 
 Check  this  link.  I  guess  the  code  is  cracked.
 
 http://www.aloha.net/~hqf/indexdondenitrator.htm
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