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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Are you bumping up your Post Counts!
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Are you bumping up your Post Counts!
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Pets0Mania
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Joined: Aug 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 Hi
 
 I  Second  Pradeep  Simhan     and  Sandeep  Raghuvanshi  
 
 Rgds
 Niranjan
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 I  would  like  to  add  my  2  paise  here................
 I  have  been  saying  this  many  a  times  and  would  like  to  again  repeat  this  for  those  who  pretend  to  not  understand  simple  english  as  if  they  were  born  in  the  stone  age...............
 IT  IS  NOT  THE  NO.  OF  POSTS,  BUT  THE  QUALITY  OF  POSTS  THAT  MATTER
 I  am  sure  we  are  not  interested  in  maybe  you  import  fish  from  hell  or  heaven  as  long  as  you  don't  take  undue  advantage  of  your  membership  and  USE  IAH  as  a  easy  selling  or  marketing  media  for  your  products..........IAH  is  a  friendly  informative  portal  which  is  aimed  to  improve  the  overall  state  of  the  Indian  aquarium  hobby  in  general  and  help  beginners  in  particular.
 As  they  say.....  "the  best  things  in  life  are  free"  -  So  is  IAH!  And  we  would  love  to  have  it  that  way  -  If  there  are  some  elements  who  try  to  pretend  innocent  and  still  take  undue  advantage  by  posting  random  Edit  to  just  keep  pumping  up  their  post  count  -  it  is  about  time  they  understand  that  people  out  there  dont  just  see  your  post  counts  but,  also  your   input  to  the  vast  data  bank  of  knowledge  that  took  years  to  be  compiled  and  is  still  counting  and  a  lot  of  pains  taking  efforts  from  people  who  care  to  share!
 I  would  like  to  apologize  for  being  harsh,  but  off  late  I  have  seen  a  drastic  fall  in  good  informative  posts...people  who  really  used  to  help  are  often  irritated  with  the  random  Edit  that  is  repeatedly  being  posted  and  wastes  a  lot  of  time  and  effort  to  read  such  Edit.
 @  Madan,
 sir,  you  also  forgot  to  mention  one  very  important  thing.............the  use  of  smilies  -  it  has  become  a  fascination  I  guess  now-a-days  to  just  post  a  few  smilies  in  the  post  -  I  dont  say  that  I  have  never  used  a  smilie  but  just  posting  it  for  the  sake  of  pumping  up  your  post  count  is  not  ethical.
 Sorry  for  a  long  post  and  condolences  to  the  ones  it  is  aimed  at!
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote  (View  Post):                
IT  IS  NOT  THE  NO.  OF  POSTS,  BUT  THE  QUALITY  OF  POSTS  THAT  MATTER
                 

 
 Amen  to  that,  brother.  Its  surprising  that  you  hadn't  posted  in  here  so  far.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 I  would  like  to  apologize  for  being  harsh,  but  off  late  I  have  seen  a  drastic  fall  in  good  informative  posts...people  who  really  used  to  help  are  often  irritated  with  the  random  Edit  that  is  repeatedly  being  posted  and  wastes  a  lot  of  time  and  effort  to  read  such  Edit.
                 

 I  could  swear  I  wrote  something  on  these  lines  a  few  months  ago.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 @  Madan,
 sir,  you  also  forgot  to  mention  one  very  important  thing.............the  use  of  smilies  -  it  has  become  a  fascination  I  guess  now-a-days  to  just  post  a  few  smilies  in  the  post  -  I  dont  say  that  I  have  never  used  a  smilie  but  just  posting  it  for  the  sake  of  pumping  up  your  post  count  is  not  ethical.
 Sorry  for  a  long  post  and  condolences  to  the  ones  it  is  aimed  at!                

 
 I  hope  I  am  not  one  of  them  Very Happy
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Lawrenze
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Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 1557
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 I  agree  with  most  of  you  especially  Sandeep...we  don't  care  for  post  counts  or  titles  here  (I  suppose)  for  we  all  know  who  the  real  experts  or  gurus  are...there  are  a  few  very  experienced  hobbyists  out  here  with  hardly  a  few  hundred  posts  to  their  credit  as  much  as  there  are  regular  posters  whom  we  all  know...so,  quality  of  posts  rather  than  quantity  matters  here.
 Rgds
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rgg
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 Madan  et  all.....
   Not  sure  if  its  a  good  idea.  
 But  then  one  can  monitor  the  Buy  sell  exchange  and  ensure  folks  around  do  not  misuse  pretending  to  be  hobbiests  but  posting  only  buy  /  sell  /  exchange.   If  this  is  defaulted  they  could  be  thrown  out  of  the  fourm  as  and  when  this  occurs.  
 
 Also  may  be  since  this  is  only  for  hobbiests,  new  market  products  could  be  banned  from  being  listed  here.  Also  wholesale  dealing  can  be  banned  in  here.  May  be  a  template  entry  to  this  segment  will  ensure  the  way  the  people  post  their  buy  /  sell  /  exchange.  This  would  be  similar  to  the  way  we  buy  sell  shares  online.  With  limiting  the  buy  sell  quantity  may  be  to  a  dozen.   And  one  would  be  forced  to  enter  in  all  the  other  details  to  shipping,  location  of  buy  /  sell  etc  etc.
 
 But  on  LFS  announcements  may  be  specific  people  can  be  given  a  separate  permission  /  login  who  can  cast  their  announcements  in  their.
 
 Raghu
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natbox
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 i  feel  a  little  bit  hesistant  to  post  after  reading  the  above  threads,but  do  not  mistake  me  for  i  am  not  into  becoming  admin  or  moderator  or  something  of  that  sort.my  sole  purpose  is  to  gain  more  knowledge  about  this  hobby  so  that  i  can  provide  a  better  place  for  my  fish  and  be  happy  doing  this  wonderful  hobby.i  think  i  have  in  IAh  for  about  a  year  and  it  has  helped  me  a  lot  by  teaching  me  how  to  do  DIY  stuff  for  a  tank  as  i  am  not  blessed  with  much  finances,and  the  members  in  here  have  helped  me  a  lot  .thanks  for  the  support  and  help.thanks  IAH.i  am  not  one  of  them  Chuckle
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trevor
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

                                                   
aquascapes  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Sorry  for  a  long  post  and  condolences  to  the  ones  it  is  aimed  at!                

 
 I  hope  we  do  not  have  to  wait  for  the  'King'  of  unwanted  posts  and  excessive  smilies  to  depart  to  the  pet  farm  in  the  sky  before  we  can  make  IAH  a  better  website  for  all.  Banned
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Ravikiran
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 Aquascapes  :  Instead  of  beating  round  the  Bush  and  accusing/warning  people  indirectly,  why  dont  you  write  a  PM  to  those  people  directly  ?  
 
 I  strongly  feel  that  IAH  is  the  FAMILY  for  all  Indian  Aqua  Hobbyists  and  for  sure  we  all  want  it  in  the  TOP  quality.
 
 Regarding  the  unwanted/non  informative  posts,  I  am  sure  that  the  Administrators/Moderators  are  addressing  only  a  few  hobbyists  (  ONE  or  TWO).  
 
 Please  be  noted  that  all  the  Hobbyists  are  not  of  same  levels  of  maturity/understanding.  Some  may  understand  in  the  first  go,  some  in  the  second  and  some  may  never.  My  kind  request  to  all  the  Administrators/Moderators  is  identify  those  people  and  warn  them  with  a  PM  directly.  If  those  people  are  not  changing,  then  you  always  have  your  own  ways  of  banning  them,  restricting  them  or  some  other  action.  I  do  know  that  some  people  learn  their  lessons  with  a  stick  only,  but  they  should  be  given  a  fair  chance  to  realize/understand.
 
 Hope  the  Comments  of  Aquascapes  will  be  an  Eye  Opener  to  whomever  they  are  addressed  to.
 
 If  you  guys  have  any  problem  telling  those  people  directly,  please  let  me  know  the  names  thru  a  PM  and  I  will  try  my  level  best  to  make  them  understand.
 
 I  hope  you  all  will  understand  my  concern  and  take  things  positively.
 
 Looking  forward  to  meet  all  in  Aquatika.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 I  started  this  thread  and  did  not  target  it  at  any  particular  person,  there  was  a  general  unhappiness  about  the  meaningless  posts.  In  fact  I  did  mention  that  in  the  early  part  of  the  thread  in  response  to  Yogesh's  post.  I  had  to  word  the  first  post  in  such  a  way  it  got  people's  attention  without  being  personal  at  anyone.
 
 My  intention  was  to  get  people  to  stop  these  posts.  We  had  not  objected  to  any  such  posts  in  the  past,  and  c'mon  there  were  more  than  2-3  persons  who  were  following  the  trend,  albeit  with/out  any  malicious  intent,  so  it  was  a  wake  up  call  to  all  to  stop  these  posts  and  lay  down  a  New  Policy  Guideline  if  one  may  call  it  that.  This  one  seems  to  have  worked,  unlike  so  many  other  requests  such  as  not  to  use  SMSese  etc.,  Very Happy
 
 Infact  about  a  week  before  I  started  this  thread,  I  posted  a  general  reply  I  think  in  response  to  T2Chatto's  thread  where  he  asked  people  to  PM  him,  telling  people  there  is  no  need  to  post  in  the  forums  once  you  send  a  PM,  the  number  of  PM  posts  reduced  but  did  not  stop,  so  I  addressed  the  larger  issue  with  this  thread  and  to  get  feedback.  I  must  say  the  feedback  has  been  ballistic.  Very Happy  
 
 There  was  an  immediate  reaction  to  the  topic  under  discussion  and  except  for  a  few  people  who  did  not  read  the  original  thread  the  rest  gladly  complied  with  the  request.  I  suppose  now  that  the  thread  has  been  round  for  a  few  days  and  majority  have  seen  it,  the  message  is  well  across  and  there  is  a  consensus.  Thank  You  guys.
 
 I  did  not  know  that  posts  in  the  Buy/Sell/Exchange  and  LFS  announcements  was  a  source  of  so  much  irritation  to  so  many  and  frankly  I  am  surprised  at  the  strong  opposition  to  the  way  these  two  forums  are  operating,  I  thought  only  I  was  getting  irritated   Chuckle,  anyway  this  is  out  in  the  open  and  IAH  will  address  this  issue  in  a  manner  that  does  not  affect  the  spirit  of  IAH.
 
 Admins  and  Mods  don't  want  to  resort  to  personal  PMs,  except  in  really  required  cases,   and  even  then  PMs  regarding  site  matters  are  kept  to  minimum,  Admins  are  also  human,  and  sometimes  if  they  over  react  or  they  keep  sending  PMs  for  every  small  thing  it  would  lead  to  an  US  vs  THEM  thingy.
 
 It's  better  everything  is  out  in  the  open,  otherwise  we'll  have  PMs  being  quoted  or  misquoted  here  unnecessarily.  
 
 We  don't  want  to  regulate  anything  on  IAH.  It's  doing  very  well  without  us  poking  our  nose  in,  why  fix  something  that  ain't  broken?
 
 People  articulate  their  solution  and  react  to  problems  in  different  ways,  but  the  main  issue  was  to  stop  these  frivolous  posts,  that's  succeeded  for  now  without  any  heartbreaks,  and  I  hope  it  holds  in  the  future.
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vkv
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 I'd  like  to  air  something  that  really  irritates  me.  Don't  know  if  its  just  me.  If  so  then  please  ignore.
 
 If  you  get  a  PM,  please  open  your  inbox  and  read  it.  You  dont  have  to  reply  BUT  at  least  read  it.
 I  have  had  PMs  sitting  in  my  outbox  for  months.(  These  were  not  unsolicited  PMs  -  mind  you).  I  still  have  4  lying  in  there.
 BTW,  that  prompted  me  to  send  off  a  few  "You  have  PM"  messages  to  get  the  senders  to  read  it.  Didn't  work...
 
 I  guess,  the  email  notification  that  carries  the  text  of  the  PM  obviates  the  need  to  actually  check  your  inbox  but  it  sure  irritates  the  hell  out  of  me  to  have  messages  lying  in  my  outbox.
 
 Sorry  for  the  rant!!
 
 Regards,
 Venkat
 
 Hey,  my  post  count  just  went  up  Smile  Smile  Very Happy  and  my  smily  count  too...  Very Happy  just  kidding!
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discusboy
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Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 1217
Location: Mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 well  what  to  say  i  think  what  i  had  in  mind  regarding  quality  is  already  mentioned  by  nauzer..
 
 I  hope  all  the  Iahians  after  reading  this  thread  will  understand..
 
 
 Now  i  am  irritated..  i  never  noticed  till  now...i  have  16  mails  in  my  outbox..  @vkv  now  what  would  u  do  if  u  had  that  no..  Chuckle  
 i  am  just  deleting  all  now..
 
 @madan,Can  something  be  done  in  the  software  regarding  the  no  of  posts..if  yes  that  would  be  the  best  thing  to  stop  the  abuse..  what  say???
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aquascapes
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Dec 19, 2005
Posts: 2753
Location: Surat, Gujarat

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

                                                   
Ravikiran  wrote  (View  Post):                
Aquascapes  :  Instead  of  beating  round  the  Bush  and  accusing/warning  people  indirectly,  why  dont  you  write  a  PM  to  those  people  directly  ?  .                

 Sir,  I  have  always  been  very  blunt  and  to  the  point.......never  have  I  tried  to  beat  round  the  bush  and  if  need  be  I  surely  will  PM  the  person  -  the  point  why  I  jotted  down  these  words  in  the  above  post  is  because  I  want  to  ensure  that  if  something  is  eleminated  by  malachite  green  why  administer  copper  sulphate?
 
                                                 
Quote:                
I  strongly  feel  that  IAH  is  the  FAMILY  for  all  Indian  Aqua  Hobbyists  and  for  sure  we  all  want  it  in  the  TOP  quality.                

 Yes,  that  is  what  exactly  we  are  doing.............discussing  family  problems  at  the  dinner  table  in  front  of  the  whole  family!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Please  be  noted  that  all  the  Hobbyists  are  not  of  same  levels  of  maturity/understanding.  Some  may  understand  in  the  first  go,  some  in  the  second  and  some  may  never.  My  kind  request  to  all  the  Administrators/Moderators  is  identify  those  people  and  warn  them  with  a  PM  directly.  If  those  people  are  not  changing,  then  you  always  have  your  own  ways  of  banning  them,  restricting  them  or  some  other  action.  I  do  know  that  some  people  learn  their  lessons  with  a  stick  only,  but  they  should  be  given  a  fair  chance  to  realize/understand.                

 I  understand  what  you  are  saying.....I  have  said  this  earlier  also  and  saying  it  again  "He  who  asks  a  question  is  a  fool  for  the  moment,  he  who  does  not  remains  a  fool  forever"  -  Please  ask  as  many  questions  as  you  want  if  you  dont  understand  the  discussion  going  on  but,  just  for  the  sake  of  pumping  up  your  post  counts  dont  ask  questions  because  it  wastes  a  lot  of  valuable  time  of  all  the  people  who  read  the  thread  seeking  information  -  often  this  becomes  so  irritating  that  the  person  seeking  information  gets  fed  up  and  logs  out...  
 see  the  whole  point  of  starting  this  thread  sends  a  loud  and  clear  message  from  the  admin.  of  IAH  that  they  dont  want  to  resort  to  harsh  measures  being  a  family  lets  discuss  our  problems  and  finish  it  off  once  and  for  all!
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Hope  the  Comments  of  Aquascapes  will  be  an  Eye  Opener  to  whomever  they  are  addressed  to.                

 Ravikiran,  I  am  a  member  to  a  lot  of  other  aquatic  and  non-aquatic  fourms  and  most  of  the  sites  are  as  old  as  IAH  (some  even  younger)  still  the  post  counts  of  some  active  members  are  some  5000+  (nobody  objects  to  their  post  counts  because  they  talk  sense!)  we  really  will  enjoy  reading  good  informative  posts  infact  that  will  add  to  the  data  bank  of  information  here  on  IAH.  Please  don't  mis-understand  the  concern  as  we  dont  want  people  to  post.............  it  is  not  that  we  want  to  restrict  people  from  posting,  we  just  object  to  people  posting  senseless  comments  that  neither  have  no  context  to  the  discussion  going  on  nor  adds  any  sensible  logic  to  the  discussion.
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nikitanain
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 187
Location: mumbai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 there  r  various  sites  that  help  aquarists  like  fish  geeks  and  aquaria  central  etc...  they  r  all  american  sites....  and  r  doing  really  well  cause  of  their  supportive  attitude  not  authoratative.....
 
 according  to  me  and  only  to  me  this  site  is  more  like  a  school  classroom  than  an  actual  forum  where  people  ask  for  help  and  people  who  have  knowledge  advice.....
 
 for  eg  :  if  a  novice  does  make  a  mistake  he  is  required  to  be  explained  what  he  has  done  wrong  and  not  yelled  at,  or  not  told  that  he  should  learn  before  buying  fish......  if  he  knew  everything  he  would  not  be  a  novice  or  be  asking  for  advice....  everyone  makes  mistakes....
 
 second  :  in  the  chit  chat  forum  i  guess  we  can  post  everything  other  than  aquarium  stuff..  but  when  i  had  posted  a  thread  regarding  my  non  aquatic  pets  i  was  asked  not  to  do  so  (beta)  and  the  thread  was  closed......  i  mean  what  is  the  sense  of  chit  chat  if  u  gotta  be  so  damn  formal!!!!
 
 this  forum  is  for  mature  people  to  sort  out  their  fishie  probelms  and  am  sure  that  we  r  smart  enough  to  know  when  we  do  something  wrong  or  violate  the  rules...  BUT  ON  THIS  FORUM  EVERYTHING  WE  DO  VIOLATES  THE  RULES......
 
 and  if  someone  wants  me  to  quit  this  forum  and  join  fishgeeks  ,  i  wouldnt  miind,  infact  i  am  with  fishgeeks  since  feb  2006...  but  the  point  is  one  satisfied  person  will  maybe  tell  1  or  2  people  about  how  great  the  website  or  any  other  product  is.....but  a  dissatisfied  person  will  tell  20  people  and  every  body  who  comes  his  way  about  the  wrong  that  happened...  
 
 so  pls  look  into  the  matter  asap......
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Madan
Admin
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Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 7084
Location: Bengaluru, India

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 Just  as  I  was  sitting  down  with  my  Sunday  evening  glass  with  Teacher's...  anyway....what  needs  to  be  addressed  has  to  be  done.....  Smile  
 
 
 
                                                 
nikitanain  wrote  (View  Post):                
there  r  various  sites  that  help  aquarists  like  fish  geeks  and  aquaria  central  etc...  they  r  all  american  sites....  and  r  doing  really  well  cause  of  their  supportive  attitude  not  authoratative.....                

 
 Who  is  authoritative  here?
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
according  to  me  and  only  to  me  this  site  is  more  like  a  school  classroom  than  an  actual  forum  where  people  ask  for  help  and  people  who  have  knowledge  advice....                

 
 You  are  entitled  to  your  opinion.  
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 for  eg  :  if  a  novice  does  make  a  mistake  he  is  required  to  be  explained  what  he  has  done  wrong  and  not  yelled  at,  or  not  told  that  he  should  learn  before  buying  fish......  if  he  knew  everything  he  would  not  be  a  novice  or  be  asking  for  advice....  everyone  makes  mistakes....
               

 
 Who  is  yelling  here?  I  have  not  seen  a  post  with  all  bold  letters  on  IAH  ever.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 second  :  in  the  chit  chat  forum  i  guess  we  can  post  everything  other  than  aquarium  stuff..  but  when  i  had  posted  a  thread  regarding  my  non  aquatic  pets  i  was  asked  not  to  do  so  (beta)  and  the  thread  was  closed......  i  mean  what  is  the  sense  of  chit  chat  if  u  gotta  be  so  damn  formal!!!!
               

 
 Which  thread  are  you  talking  about?  Unless  you  have  posted  pictures  of  animals  other  than  non-aquatic  in  the  chit  chat  forum,  there  is  no  way  your  thread  would  have  been  closed.  
 Chit  Chat  Forum  rules  clearly  states  discuss  any  topic,  it  does  not  allow  you  to  post  pictures  that  are  non-aquatic  there.  This  is  an  Aquarium  and  Aquatic  animal  related  website  only  and  will  always  remain  so.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 this  forum  is  for  mature  people  to  sort  out  their  fishie  probelms  and  am  sure  that  we  r  smart  enough  to  know  when  we  do  something  wrong  or  violate  the  rules...  BUT  ON  THIS  FORUM  EVERYTHING  WE  DO  VIOLATES  THE  RULES......
               

 
 What  is  everything?  And  who  are  the  We?
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 and  if  someone  wants  me  to  quit  this  forum  and  join  fishgeeks  ,  i  wouldnt  miind,  infact  i  am  with  fishgeeks  since  feb  2006...  but  the  point  is  one  satisfied  person  will  maybe  tell  1  or  2  people  about  how  great  the  website  or  any  other  product  is.....but  a  dissatisfied  person  will  tell  20  people  and  every  body  who  comes  his  way  about  the  wrong  that  happened...  
 
 so  pls  look  into  the  matter  asap......
               

 
 As  far  as  I  know,  no  one  wants  you  to  quit  this  forum


Last edited by Madan on Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Madan
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Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 7084
Location: Bengaluru, India

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Are you bumping up your Post Counts! Reply with quote

 Nikita  if  this  is  the  thread  you  are  talking  about
 
   My  Mini  Zoo
 
 Please  check  the  thread,  it  has  never  been  closed,  it's  still  open  for  you  to  post.
 
 Beta  has  only  removed  the  pictures  of  your  pets  from  the  thread.
 
 He  has  offered  good  sensible  advice  and  given  you  his  reasons  for  deleting  the  pictures.
 
 You  have  not  been  yelled  at  all  on  the  thread  nor  has  he  been  authoritative.  He  was  only  doing  his  job  as  an  Administrator.
 
 I  don't  see  any  basis  for  you  complaint  "beta  closed  the  thread".
 
 Try  yelling  on  fishgeeks  and  see  if  you  are  wanted  there.


Last edited by Madan on Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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