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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie
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Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie
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demorphica
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 Dear  friends  this  is  my  first  post  to  this  great  forum  ...   Thumbs Up  
 
 I  have  been  planning  to  set  up  my  very  own  planted  aquarium.  I  love  plants  but  i  am  really  not  that  much  a  fish  lover.  i  really  like  turtles  and  snails,  but  turtles  being  illegal,  the  dream  stops  right  there.  I  would  really  only  be  interested  in  keeping  a  Betta,  a  few  Kuhli  Loaches  (just  love  their  snakelike  movement)  and  a  really  large  Apple  Snail  colored  anything  but  the  stock  brownish  black.  Golden  is  what  i  want  ...   Very Happy  
 
 I  want  to  go  all  for  the  DIY  approach,  which  includes  building  the  tank.  I  really  have  a  lot  of  DIY  experience  behind  me  so  i  think  it  will  be  demanding  but  not  imposible.  I  am  planning  to  build  a  large  5x2x2  tank  for  myself  using  MH  lighting.  I  have  a  good  friend  who  has  been  a  lifetime  fishkeeper,  so  the  lives  of  the  little  fishies  are  safe   Smile.
 
 Could  any  of  you  please  answer  these  questions  ??
 
 1.  How  good  actually  is  the  Diana  Walstad  method?
 
 2.  I  live  in  pune,  where  can  i  find  sources  of  good  healthy  plants?  
 
 my  list  includes:  Anubias  Barteri,  Bacopa  Caroliniana,  Cabomba  Caroliniana,  Ceratophylum  Demersum,  Cryptocoryne  Undulata,  Eliocharis  Acicularis,  Glossostigma  Elatinoides,  Hydrocotyle  Sibthorpioides,  Hygrophylla  Dfformis,  Lemna  Minor,  Limnophila  Aquatica,  Linophila  Sessiliflora,  Java  Fern,  Nymphaea  Stellata,  Pistia  Statiotes,  Rotala  Macrandra  and  java  moss.  I  can  upload  images  of  any  of  these.
 
 3.  Quite  a  few  of  these  are  Indian  plants,  and  i  am  ready  to  undertake  expeditions  to  find  them  in  the  wild.  But  where  near  pune  ??
 
 4.  Can  anyone  tell  me  a  brand  of  aquarium  safe  silicone  ?
 
 5.  I  really  need  a  Rotala  Macrandra  or  some  other  red  colored  plant  that  can  be  made  available  ...  where  do  i  find  these  ??
 
 Sorry  of  the  very  long  post,  but  there's  so  much  i  still  need  to  know   Chuckle  !!
 
 Thanks  on  advance
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Nanu
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 Hi  Welcome  to  IAH..
 First  you  could  start  by  digging  up  some  older  'Pune'  Posts,  you  will  get  all  your  questions  answered...
 
 1.  How  good  actually  is  the  Diana  Walstad  method?  
 
   No  clue
 
 2.  I  live  in  pune,  where  can  i  find  sources  of  good  healthy  plants?  
 
 Try  Living  Color  Aquariums  and  UGAM  for  plants,  I  dont  know  their  address,  but  I  can  PM  you  their  numbers  in  the  morning...
 
 3.  Quite  a  few  of  these  are  Indian  plants,  and  i  am  ready  to  undertake  expeditions  to  find  them  in  the  wild.  But  where  near  pune  ??  
 
 Humm,  interesting...We  can  orgeanise  a  Pune  meet  sometime..
 
 4.  Can  anyone  tell  me  a  brand  of  aquarium  safe  silicone  ?  
 
 Dow  Crowning  (spelling)
 
 5.  I  really  need  a  Rotala  Macrandra  or  some  other  red  colored  plant  that  can  be  made  available  ...  where  do  i  find  these  ??  
 
 none  with  living  color  right  now,  try  UGAM,  will  PM  you  in  the  morning..
 Sorry  of  the  very  long  post,  but  there's  so  much  i  still  need  to  know  
 
 Good  luck..
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demorphica
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  the  quick  reply  !!   Clapping   
 
 I  visited  Living  Color,  both  at  dhankawadi  and  lulla  nagar,  but  honestly  Nanu,  I  find  it  hard  to  buy  stuff  from  a  place  which  has  very  few  plants  for  display  in  its  own  aquaria....  Living  color  btw  has  the  best  lemna  i've  ever  seen.  
 
 Also  the  plants  i  saw  at  their  place  did  not  seem  very  healthy  to  me..  Probably  something  to  do  with  low  lighting  (I  guess  its  not  feasible  to  light  up  that  many  aquariums  too  well).  Plants  are  not  lush  and  flourishing  and  many  of  the  leaves  are  yellowed  and  with  holes.  Notwithstanding,  Inderjit  Bansal  is  one  of  the  most  knowledgeable  and  helpful  persons  i've  ever  met   Cheer  
 
 For  the  expedition,  im  ready  anytime  !!!
 
 Thanks  for  the  help..
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rohansd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

                                                   
demorphica  wrote  (View  Post):                
Dear  friends  this  is  my  first  post  to  this  great  forum  ...  Â Thumbs Up  
 
 I  want  to  go  all  for  the  DIY  approach,  which  includes  building  the  tank.  I  really  have  a  lot  of  DIY  experience  behind  me  so  i  think  it  will  be  demanding  but  not  imposible.  I  am  planning  to  build  a  large  5x2x2  tank  for  myself  using  MH  lighting.  
                 

 Good  luck  for  building  the  tank  yourself.Smile  In  case  you  change  your  mind  about  tank  and  decide  to  buy,  please  go  to  Albino  or  Ugam  for  the  tank
 
 Could  any  of  you  please  answer  these  questions  ??
 
                                                 
demorphica  wrote  (View  Post):                

 1.  How  good  actually  is  the  Diana  Walstad  method?
                 

 Though   I  havent  used  it  myself,  many  people  have  been  benefited  by  it.
 But  before  that  you  have  to  decide  what  kinda  setup  do  you  intend  to  keep.You  spoke  about  MH  which  means  high  lighting  and  that  has  to  be  complimented  with  Co2  which  contradicts  the  low  tech  methoda  which  dian  walstad  advocates.
 
                                                 
demorphica  wrote  (View  Post):                

 
 2.  I  live  in  pune,  where  can  i  find  sources  of  good  healthy  plants?  
 
 my  list  includes:  Anubias  Barteri,  Bacopa  Caroliniana,  Cabomba  Caroliniana,  Ceratophylum  Demersum,  Cryptocoryne  Undulata,  Eliocharis  Acicularis,  Glossostigma  Elatinoides,  Hydrocotyle  Sibthorpioides,  Hygrophylla  Dfformis,  Lemna  Minor,  Limnophila  Aquatica,  Linophila  Sessiliflora,  Java  Fern,  Nymphaea  Stellata,  Pistia  Statiotes,  Rotala  Macrandra  and  java  moss.  I  can  upload  images  of  any  of  these.
 
 3.  Quite  a  few  of  these  are  Indian  plants,  and  i  am  ready  to  undertake  expeditions  to  find  them  in  the  wild.  But  where  near  pune  ??
                 

 You  have  already  mentioned  that  you  have  visited  bansal.Thats  the  place  where  we  get  good  plants  once  in  a  while.Ugam  also  gets  good  plants  once  a  while  but  we  have  to  live  with  the  fact  that  plants  in  pune  LFS  are  never  found  in  good  health.  
 quite  a  few  plants  that  u  mentioned  above  have  been  sold  at  pune  LFS(Albino,Bansal  and  Ugam).Most  of  Hygrophilla  Species.few  of  Bacopa,Glosso,Java  FernAnubias  and  java  moss.
 Not  all  of  them  are  available  all  year  long  but  we  do  get  consignments  once  in  a  while  and  the  situation  is  improving.
 
                                                 
demorphica  wrote  (View  Post):                

 
 5.  I  really  need  a  Rotala  Macrandra  or  some  other  red  colored  plant  that  can  be  made  available  ...  where  do  i  find  these  ??
 
 Thanks  on  advance                

 Not  seen  in  Pune  yet.had  gotten  a  strand  from  a  co  hobyist  from  mumbai  which  dint  make  it.If  red  is  what  you  are  looking  for,  then  you  can  also  go  in  for  amanni  gracillis  which  is  available  in  pune.
 you  are  welcome  and  hope  to  see  more  of  you  here.Smile
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demorphica
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 Thanks  Rohan  I  guess  i  will  remain  stubborn  about  it  and  still  go  ahead  with  building  my  tank  myself     Very Happy  
 
 I  still  haven't  bought  anything  ...  I  will  probably  be  using  MH  and  pondering  about  3  L  x2  yeast  CO2  injection  with  helical  glass  diffuser  for  the  tank...  reason  why  i  was  asking  about  Diana  Walstad  method  is  that  her  method  produces  a  totally  self  sustained  ecosystem   Cheer  (except  for  fish  food),  which  is  what  i  would  really  like  to  maintain.  Hight  Tech  tanks  are  a  study  in  coercion  and  artificial  methods.  I  would  really  love  to  set  up  a  walstad  tank,  but  she  makes  it  sound  so  simple  that  it  looks  too  good  to  be  true....  does  it  really  work  ??
 
 do  you  have  any  idea  about  the  difference  /  ration  of  speed  of  plant  growth  in  a  walstad  and  Hi  Tech  Aquarium  ??
 
 btw,  do  you  have  any  experience  of  quality  of  plants  in  mumbai  shops  ?  i  can  make  the  trip  there  if  the  quality  and/or  prices  are  better,  me  and  my  friend  Rohan  from  Kothrud  (I'm  not  joking,  I  have  a  friend  called  rohan  who  lives  in  kothrud   Smile   ),  we  are  planning  to  set  up  both  our  tanks  together...  so  the  trip  to  mumbai  is  feasible.  in  fact  i'll  be  going  to  mumbai  for  a  day  very  soon  ...  Any  idea  on  good  shops  for  plants  in  mumbai  ?
 
 Thanks  again  ...
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Madan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 For  starters  read  Diana  Walstad's  book  "  Ecology  of  a  Planted  Aquarium".  You  can  buy  the  book  from  Amazon.com
 
 Then  read  up  this  forum  and  search  the  net  for  High  Light  Planted  Tanks,  Estimative  Index  of  dosing,  PMDD,  Micro  Nutrients  for  Planted  Tanks,  Substrate  etc.,
 
 After  this  decide  which  method  you  want  to  adopt.
 
 Diana  Walstad's  Method  and  MH  lighting  are  the  two  extremes  of  planted  tank  management.
 
 Diana  Walstad's  method  requires  patience  to  give  you  results.
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Nanu
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
btw,  do  you  have  any  experience  of  quality  of  plants  in  mumbai  shops  ?                

 
 Yes,  Natilus,  Bandra.  Let  me  know  if  you  are  planning  a  trip.  You  might  have  to  preorder  the  plants  from  them  and  collect  after  a  day  or  2  if  you  want  large  numbers...Again  you  can  find  their  number  on  the  forums  somewhere...
 They  have  a  much  better  stock...
 
 ..on  Mr.  Bansal..Just  picked  up  a  sq  foot  of  Crypts  from  one  of  his  outside  tanks..They  are  in  very  good  condition...
 ..You  have  to  again  order  with  him  or  keep  calling  him  and  asking  him  if  anything  new  has  come  as  they  generally  go  very  fast...I  have  seen  huge  stocks  at  his  place,  and  distributed  to  all  LFS  by  next  evening!!  Though  what  he  has  in  not  very  good  unless  you  want  crypts..
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ohmm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 hi,
 me  from  pune  too,  i  had  seen  some  rotala  rotundifolia  at  pittu's  pet  shop  in  lulla  nagar,  had  some  of  the  plants  you  mentioned,  its  in  the  same  building  as  living  color,  on  the  1ST  floor,  check  it  out  if  you  havent,  but  his  tanks  were  algae(hair)  infested  the  last  time  i  went  there.
 I  am  always  ready  for  a  trip  in  the  wild,  so  please  let  me  know  if  you  plan  something,  dont  know  what  regions  will  have  good  fauna  and  flora  though.
 
 omprakash
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rohansd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

                                                   
demorphica  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  still  haven't  bought  anything  ...  I  will  probably  be  using  MH  and  pondering  about  3  L  x2  yeast  CO2  injection  with  helical  glass  diffuser  for  the  tank...  reason  why  i  was  asking  about  Diana  Walstad  method  is  that  her  method  produces  a  totally  self  sustained  ecosystem   Cheer  (except  for  fish  food),  which  is  what  i  would  really  like  to  maintain.  Hight  Tech  tanks  are  a  study  in  coercion  and  artificial  methods.  I  would  really  love  to  set  up  a  walstad  tank,  but  she  makes  it  sound  so  simple  that  it  looks  too  good  to  be  true....  does  it  really  work  ??
 
 do  you  have  any  idea  about  the  difference  /  ration  of  speed  of  plant  growth  in  a  walstad  and  Hi  Tech  Aquarium  ??
 
 Thanks  again  ...                

 Good  thing.  Please  dont  buy  anything  before  you  have  decided  on  what  kinda  tank  you  want.
 As  Madan  said,  please  read  up  Diana  Walstad's  Book  and  also  the  planted  aquaria  forum  on  IAH.That  would  clear  up  some  of  the  confusion  you  seem  to  have
 It  is  also  available  as  eBook  on  Internet.  
 Talking  about  MH  and  using  co2  in  a  tank  is  against  the  princinple  of  low  tech  tanks.
 
 On  the  note  of  using  DIY  co2  in  a  tank  as  large  as  5X2X2,  it  will  not  work  at  all.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 Forget  MH  and  use  DIY  CO2  with  low  light  etc.,  etc.,
 
 
 or
 
 
 Forget  DIY  CO2  get  Pressurised  CO2  with  MH  and  Macros  +  Micros  a  la  EI.
 
 
 These  are  your  2  options  -  and  NO  mix  and  match,  that  will  be  disappointing.
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demorphica
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 Thank  you  all  for  your  patience  and  help  !!
 
 Madan  and  rohan:     I've  already  read  the  book  by  Diana  Walstad,  and  I  was  bent  on  following  this  simple,  natural  and  elegant  approach.  On  a   visit  to  the  LFS  i  talked  about  earlier  I  talked  at  length  about  the  walstad  method  (the  owner  did  not  seem  to  know  about  it).  
 
 The  reaction  was  disappointing  for  a  noob  like  me,  because  the  walstad  method  was  totally  pooh  poohed  by  the  gentleman  and  I  was  told  it  is  a  bookish  and  impractical  approach.  I  was  then  shown  a  lot  of  High  Tech  stuff  like  the  Read  Sea  CO2  filtration  system  and  the  Read  Sea  Plant  substrate.  
 
 I  was  told  it  is  impossible  to  get  a  planted  tank  running  without  CO2  injection,  3W/G  lighting  and  etc  etc.  Well,  this  is  not  a  rant  about  the  LFS,  as  i  said  earlier  the  person  is  extremely  knowledgeable  and  co-operative,  but  he  did  sow  the  first  seeds  of  doubt  in  my  mind  regarding  the  Walstad  method.  
 
 I  would  really  like  to  follow  the  walstad  method,  so  I  am  going  to  set  out  and   make  a  pilot  nano  10"x10"x10"  setup  for  myself  first  (was  planning  to  visit  Bohri  Ali  for  the  silicone  and  stuff  but  too  much  rain  ...  Thumb Down  )   and  will  hold  on  for  2  months  (  the  time  will  also  enable  me  to  budget  the  eheim  and  MH  and  CO2  injection  system  if  i  plan  to  go  High  Tech  later  on  ).  Smile  
 
 Here  is  the  plan:
 
 10"x10"x10"  :  6  mm  glass
 
 Substrate:  base  --  1/2"  of  50%laterite  +  50%  (garden  soil  +  gobar  khad  )
                         top     --  1"  of  Lime  free  2-4  mm  gravel
 
 Plants  :        floating:  1  Pistia
                         What  else  can  i  put  in  this  tiny  setup??  please  help  ...
 
 
 Fish            :  1  Betta  Splendenes  +  2  Kuhli  loach  +  hopefully  1  grown  snail(Can  
                           i  add  a  pair  of  siamese  algae  eater  too  ??)
 
 No  CO2,  No  Filter,  No  fertilizer,  Double  check  on  pH  and  chlorine.
 
 

 
 I  will  run  this  for  two  months  and  if  it  works  out,  the  5x2x2  will  be  a  slow  growing  self  sustained  Walstad  tank,  if  not  I  will  bail  out  the  fish  if  they  show  any  signs  of  stress  and  give  them  away  before  if  go  for  a  High  Tech  setup  with  CO2,  MH  and  ferts.
 
 What  do  you  guys  say  ???
 
 
 Nanu:  Thanks  for  the  info,  I  will  be  setting  out  to  mumbai  soon  will  let  you  know  when.
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demorphica
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 P.S  :  I  have  a  lot  of  pdf  books  on  aquaria,  aquaculture,  including  some  hard  to  find  stuff.  Well  its  not  above  the  board,  but  do  let  me  know  if  any  of  you  need  any  literature.  Will  consider  it  my  duty  to  provide.
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rohansd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

 I  have  been  saying  this  in  my  every  post  that  I  have  not  myself  tried  the  low  tech  approach  but  2  months  will  be  a  short  to  time  to  test  the  method  and  infer  anything.
 I  would  say  6  months  will  be  fair  time  frame  for  the  system  to  settle  down.
 I  am  curious  to  know  why  are  you  bent  upon  going  the  low  tech  way.
 Factors  that  would  make  me  go  the  low  tech  way  are.
 1)  Resource  crunch  (Read  as:   money  Smile  )  
 2)  High  tech  tank  needs  lot  of  care  and  maintenance  in  terms  of  fairly  decent  dosing  regime  and  pruning.
 
 and  I  couldnt  resist  adding  this
 Extremely  knowledgeable  and  co-operative  LFS  is  a  paradox  Smile
 Dont  trust  any  LFS.
 
 No  offence  meant  to  any  LFS  owner  here.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

                                                   
demorphica  wrote  (View  Post):                
On  a  Â visit  to  the  LFS  i  talked  about  earlier  I  talked  at  length  about  the  walstad  method  (the  owner  did  not  seem  to  know  about  it).  
 
 The  reaction  was  disappointing  for  a  noob  like  me,  because  the  walstad  method  was  totally  pooh  poohed  by  the  gentleman  and  I  was  told  it  is  a  bookish  and  impractical  approach.  I  was  then  shown  a  lot  of  High  Tech  stuff  like  the  Read  Sea  CO2  filtration  system  and  the  Read  Sea  Plant  substrate.  
 
 I  was  told  it  is  impossible  to  get  a  planted  tank  running  without  CO2  injection,  3W/G  lighting  and  etc  etc.  Well,  this  is  not  a  rant  about  the  LFS,  as  i  said  earlier  the  person  is  extremely  knowledgeable  and  co-operative,  but  he  did  sow  the  first  seeds  of  doubt  in  my  mind  regarding  the  Walstad  method.                  

 That  would  be  bansal
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rohansd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed by a hardcore DIY newbie Reply with quote

                                                   
apollyon  wrote  (View  Post):                

 That  would  be  bansal                

 I  dint  want  to  name  him  aditya  Smile
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