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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - To ADA or Not to ADA?
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To ADA or Not to ADA?
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issokayireloaded
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 Nanu,
 One  of  my  fellow  hobbyists  and  I  were  talking  about  ADA  -  to  do  or  not  to  do.  I  think  we  make  it  sound  like  ADA  is  the  answer  to  everything  -  their  soil  at  least.  One  thing  we  concluded  was  -  yes,  ADA  is  better  for  growing  your  plants  -  but  then,  where  does  the  challenge  lie?  I  reckon  its  far  more  satisfying  to  grow  stuff  on  the  regular,  tried  and  tested  laterite  substrate  we've  been  using  for  God  knows  how  many  years.  
 It  might  be  good  -  but  there's  just  way  too  much  hype  about  it.  
 Just  my  2C
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 @Dev:  APC  means  http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/
 
 This  is  the  home  of  the  planted  gurus  all  over  the  world.  Smile  Just  spend  some  time  to  see  their  creation.
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 thanks
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

                                                   
issokayireloaded  wrote  (View  Post):                
Nanu,
 One  of  my  fellow  hobbyists  and  I  were  talking  about  ADA  -  to  do  or  not  to  do.  I  think  we  make  it  sound  like  ADA  is  the  answer  to  everything  -  their  soil  at  least.  One  thing  we  concluded  was  -  yes,  ADA  is  better  for  growing  your  plants  -  but  then,  where  does  the  challenge  lie?  I  reckon  its  far  more  satisfying  to  grow  stuff  on  the  regular,  tried  and  tested  laterite  substrate  we've  been  using  for  God  knows  how  many  years.  
 It  might  be  good  -  but  there's  just  way  too  much  hype  about  it.  
 Just  my  2C                

 
 Amey....  no  one  is  doubting  about  the  capability  of  ADA  AS.  But  the  point  is,  really  do  you  need  it  into  your  tank  or  not,   to  raise  the  plants  you  have.
 
 I  have  pervulas  in  my  tank  for  last  6  months  but  there  is  no  growth  at  all  where  I  am  using  Laterite  and  Sand.  But  I  saw  amazing  growth  of  Pervula  in  AS.
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Supra
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 Hi  Nanu,
 
 Instead  of  experimenting,  you  can  try  actually  speaking  to  a  few  hobbyists  who  have  graduated  from  ordinary  gravel  to  ADA.
 
 Mayur,  adip,  sridhar  should  be  able  to  shed  some  light  on  this.
 
 Why  eheim  &  not  dolphin  ???  Confused  
 
 Rgds
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Nanu
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 Supra:  Thats  what  the  post  is  for,  someone  who  can  compare  them,  and  shed  light  on  the  growth  rates  and  other  benefits.
   
 I  tried  looking  at  Tom  Barr's  site  for  ADa  results  over  laterite,  but  he  simply  hates  it  for  larger  tanks  of  >100Gl.  and  mine  is  110Gl.
 
 I  am  sure  it  has  some  benefits,  else  it  would  not  be  world  reknown  for  nothing.
 
 It  would  be  great  if  someone  could  post  more  about  it.
 
 Though  if  you  look  at  Shankars  tank  or  Harshals  I  am  quite  sure  they  are  not  using  ADA  but  still  have  stunning  growth,  with  laterite  base  and  peat.  Maybe  I  am  looking  for  ADA  to  make  up  for  my  lack  of  a  proper  dosing  regime  and  co2,  or  even  the  lack  of  experience  with  planted  tanks,   which  is  wrong.  As  the  ADA  will  not  help  me  in  this  regard,  and  hence  I  should  first  concentrate  on  those  2  things  and  get  them  right  on  track  ?  
 
 I  would  be  glad  if  I  got  anywhere  near  Suraj's  110Gl  planted  tank's  growth  rate,  I  dont  think  he  even  used  ADA  a  few  months  ago...
 
 Can  experts  please  comment  on  their  experiences  with  ADA  soil,  before  a  lot  of  us  jump  on  to  this  expensive  soil..
 thank  you.
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nature_lover
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 Hi  Nanu,
 
 I  don't  use  ADA  even  today.  There  are  a  lot  of  positives  and  negatives  about  it.  I  never  imagined  a  seasoned  aquarist  like  Tom  Barr  would  be  having  problems  with  ADA.  
 
 I  have  seen  Nitin's  and  Kiran's  planted  glosso  tanks  and  neither  of  them  use  ADA  either.  
 
 The  black  colour  is  definitely  something  to  look  for  but  if  you  ask  me  whether  it  is  worth  the  expense  and  the  trouble  after,  I  am  ready  to  risk  having  tried-and-tested  river  sand  than  expensive  ADA  and  have  it  go  wrong.  All  said  and  done  about  our  love  for  the  hobby,  we  still  need  to  make  a  wise  choice.
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Anandaqu
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 Tirtha,
 
 Thanks  for  volunteering!  It  is  worth  doing  the  experiment.  do  keep  us  posted.
 
 anand
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mayurdev
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 All  Speculations  aside  and  the  fact  that  I  sell  and  deal  with  all  ADA  products,  I  would  like  to  add  a  note  of  advise  to  this  post.
 
 The  points  below  could  be  helpful  to  all  ADA  users  and  all  those  who  aspire  to  use  the  products  in  the  future.
 
 The  ADA  soil  is  no  magic  potion  that  will  make  your  tank  into  an  Amano  Tank  as  soon  as  you  add  the  soil,  It  will  need  a  lot  of  understanding  of  the  product  and  to  use  it  in  the  way  specified.
 
 
 You  will  need  to  use  the  right  kind  of  Fertilizers  (ADA  or  Ferka),  your  normal  PMDD  will  not  work  as  expected.  Also  it  is  clearly  specified  as  to  when  how  and  how  much  of  the  fretz  are  to  be  used  for  your  tank.
 
 Plant  Selection  is  critical,  you  will  need  to  be  very  clear  beforehand  as  to  what  your  tank  should  look  like.
 
 Besides  what  any  body  may  tell  you  Please  Plant  Heavily,  you  are  looking  at  a  tank  with  high  nutrients  and  less  plants  means  more  algae.
 
 It  is  true  that  HC,  Glosso,  Hair  grass  etc  will  grow  extremely  will  with  ADA  products,  yet  again  you  will  have  to  plant  heavily.  
 
 This  is  like  being  Penny  wise  and  Pound  Foolish.  You  pay  a  sum  for  the  ADA  soil  and  say  i  will  plant  one  pot  of  HC  and  wait  for  it  to  grow,  well  friends  all  you  will  grow  is  algae.  a  1X1X1  (feet)  tank  will  need  atleast  10  pots  of  HC
 
 ADA  lights  are  made  for  the  sole  purpose  of  growing  plants  in  an  aquarium,  All  other  lights  are  made  for  the  sole  purpose  of  illuminating  a  room  or  an  area  that  need  light.  
 
 DIY  Co2  does  not  help  much  as  it  is  not  consistent.  Do  remember  Co2  of  the  lack  of  it  or  an  unstable  supply  can  cause  algae  too.  Any  good  reactor,  diffuser  can  be  used.
 
 I  will   vote  for  the  tried  and  tested  river  sand  and  latrite  any  day  and  twice  on  a  Sunday,  but  again  where  does  the  challenge  lie?  when  we  are  not  open  to  new  things.  
 
 @Tirtha,  I  will  be  glad  to  assists  you  with  any  help  you  may  need  with  your  experiment,  will  be  able  to  give  you  a  discount  for  the  products  you  will  need  for  the  experiment.  
 
 Just  a  thought,  I  am  thankful  to  all  our  senior  hobbyists  for  having  an  open  mind  to  try  latrite  and  substrate  10  or  so  years  ago,  if  not  we  may  not  have  had  that  either  to  use  today.  
 
 Thanking  you  
 
 Glad  to  be  of  assistance
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 Thanks  a  lot  Mayur  for  your  kind  offer.  Let  the  heat  go.  For  sure  I  will  try  to  do  the  experiment.  And  it's  great  to  get  the  details  from  you  as  an  ADA  user.  I  am  really  frustrated  to  see  the  growth  rate  of  Pervula  and  HC  in  normal  substrate,  when  my  couple  of  overseas  friends  are  growing  them  like  a  weed  on  ADA,  both  the  place  rest  of  the  specifications  are  exactly  same  except  the  substrate.
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nature_lover
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 That's  a  nice  gesture  from  Mayur.  All  the  best,  Thirth.
 
 BTW  Mayur,  how  much  ADA  soil  would  you  require  for  a  1'  cube?
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 1  9ltr  bag  of  AS  II  Powder  type  will  be  good  for  a  1feet  cube.  
 
 (12"x12"x3")/231=1.8  US  Gal=arround  8ltr
 
 So  using  8Ltr  ASII  we  can  make  a  3"  thick  layer  of  substrate.
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 @mayur  -  great  post  dude.   Clapping
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Nanu
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 ....nice  post  Mayur.
 
 I  think  I  will  start  a  tank  with  ADA  and  see  for  myself  what  the  fuss  is  all  about  though  it  wont  be  the  large  tank  I  had  put  the  post  for..
 
 I  think  there  were  a  few  ADA  tanks  setup  in  Bangalore  for  which  we  have  posts  here,  if  some  of  the  kind  B'Lore  people  would  post  updates  on  them,  I  think  it  would  help  us  all  in  seeing  the  growth  rate.
 
   Smile
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nytyn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: To ADA or Not to ADA? Reply with quote

 IMO  a  succesfull  planted  tank  is  a  very  fine  balance  of  lighting[both  in  terms  of  color  temperature  and  photoperiod],  nutrients  in  substrate,  dosing  in  water  column  on  a  daily  basis,  CO2[both  quantity  injected  and  method  of  mixing  it  with  water],  tempreature  and  also  plant  uptake  and  growth.
 
 What  we  do  is  setup  a  tank  with  a  good  substrate[according  to  me,  laterite,  topped  by  unwashed  river  sand,  topped  by  washed  river  sand  and  then  2  to  3  mm  gravel],  use  some  real  good  lighting[CFL,  or  tubelights  or  MH,  depending  on  height  and  width  of  tank],  CO2[DIY  or  pressurized  setup],  and  als  brew  some  super  cool  PMDD  and  start  dosing.  Not  to  mention  the  laborious  planning  the  layout,  and  sourcing  plants  and  planting  too.
 
 What  happens  next  is,  40  percent  of  the  plants  take  of  like  you  expected,  and  60  percent  dont.  One  month  is  gone  by  now,  and  you  try  adjusting  your  dosing  levels,  depending  on  the  signs  you  see  in  your  tank.  You  also  read  up  on  all  forums  and  try  to  get  things  under  control.  You  also  increase  your  bacterial  colony,  by  increasing  the  bio  media  in  your  filter.
 
 2  weeks  later,  about  30  percent  of  your  plants  gain  life  and  grow,  whereas  30  percent  still  refusing  to  grow  the  way  you  want.  NOw  is  the  time  you  start  the  battle  with  the  algae  too.  You  run,  get  some  rosy  barbs  to  eat  up  your  brush  algae,  and  a  few  other  algae  eaters  to  make  your  algae  eating  crew  really  strong.  Its  already  60  days  since  you  started  the  tank.
 
 And  the  next  few  weeks  you  add  nitrates  and  potassium  in  a  slightly  different  proportion  with  your  weekly  water  changes[KMnO4  and  K2SO4].
 
 All  plants  are  now  growing,  and  its  your  12th  week.  What  you  now  do,  is,  you  are  sure  one  plant  will  now  grow  with  you,  though  it  has  not  died,  you  just  pull  it  out,  and  do  a  little  bit  of  rearrangement,  and  your  tank  is  starting  to  look  good.
 
 A  few  weeks  later,  you  are  so  happy  with  the  tank.  Its  your  14th  weekly  water  change  and  your  tank  is  105  days  old.
 
 This  is  how  most  planted  tanks  work.  And  this  is  how  ALL  my  planted  tanks  have  worked  for  me.  
 
 My  tanks  mature  at  100  days,  when  it  suddenly  time  to  show  off  and  start  clicking!
 
 Now,  coming  to  ADA,  you  can  have  the  best  of  products,  like  ADA.  Why  stop  with  the  substrate?  You  can  have  their  lighting  too  which  is  surely  the  best  any  planted  enthusiast  can  have,  and  also  their  fertilizer  range,  and  their  CO2  equipment  too.  Not  to  mention  their  filters  are  top  class.
 
 But  with  planted  tanks,  there's  nothing  like  a  success  formula.  There  are  so  many  IFs  and  BUTs.  Youwill  have  to  keep  monitoring,  and  do  necessary  changes,  till  you  strike  that  balance.
 
 You  can  decide  how  many  plants  to  keep,  but  to  get  to  know  how  much  nutrients  your  plants  actually  need,  and  their  uptake,  and  how  soon  you  will  get  algae  if  you  err  on  the  lower  side,  or  upper  side,  is  totally  dependant  on  each  tank.
 
 All  said  and  done,  ADA  does  not  guarantee  you  a  succesful  planted  tank!  
 
 HTH!
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