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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcutta
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Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcutta
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Rocky,  seems  your  signature  is  coming  out  to  be  true...Hope  you  come  out  triumphant  in  the  end.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Only  one  expert  commented  ?
 
 I  think  this  post  is  higly  misleading  and  more  exagerated  and  intended  to  generate  sales  of  products  which  one  deals  in.
 
 I  am  exteremly  supprised  it  also  is  from  one  of  the  staff  members  of   this  forum.
 
 As  a  novoice  and  begginer  i  am  just  happy  i  did  not  fall  prey  to  this  post.
 
 I  hope  many  others  dont  fall  prey  in  their  adventure  to  setup  a  world  class  planted  tank  ..hardly  !!  ...
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Madan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Nash  Point  made.  Topic  closed.
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 @Nash  Bhai....  after  reading  your  posts  I  got  a  mixed  feelings.  I  don't  know  if  you  will  agree  with  me  or  not  but  I  think  we  can't  simply  turn  down  the  complete  event  like  this.
 
 
                                                 
nash81  wrote  (View  Post):                
Appreciate  all  the  effort  ....  but  World  Class  ....  hmmm  ..
                 

 
   Â   Â   Â   Â What  is  world  class??  Any  defination?  As  far  as  I  can  remember  this  term  is  Rocky's  brain  child.  As  a  creater  if  you  happy  with  the  looks  of  the  tank,  that  can  be  world  class  to  you.  And  Rocky  was  failed  poorly  (And  already  he  has  admitted)  to  make  the  tanks  as  he  did  not  have  any  prior  experience  on  plants  as  well  as  planted  tank.  But  do  you  think  the  complete  event  was  just  a  marketing  stunt????????  I  don't  think  so.  As  being  a  medium  budget  business  man,  no  one  will  be  eger  to  burn  out  arroung  40K  just  for  a  marketing  stunt  when  he  can  get  a  huge  market  and  reputation  for  free  (Already  he  had  it).  
   Â   Â   Â   Â What  about  taking  the  complete  story  in  a  different  way?  Rocky  was  the  only  guy  who  picked  up  the  right  spirit  to  spread  the  planted  mania  among  Kolkata  hobbyiests  after  seeing  same  type  of  event  happening  in  Banglore.  But  in  this  case  he  failed  badly  also  for  the  laidback  attitude  of  local  hobbyiests  and  lack  of  experienced  planted  aquarists.  
 
 
                                                 
nash81  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  am  not  sure  since  when  did  Prodac  products  become  world  class.  You  cannot  define  them  to  be  that  way  just  cause  u  either  sell  it  or  like  it.  There  are  many  better  german  (  Sera  )  ,  US  products  (seachem)  in  the  market  which  outclass  Prodac  in  performance  and  price.
                 

 
 Again  another  point  I  failed  to  agree  with.  What  do  you  mean  by  World  Class  product?  According  to  my  personal  experience  SERA  is  nothing  but  an  utter  Edit  available.  But  someone  else  can  hold  a  complete  different  view  on  the  same  product.  Reason  is  both  of  us  got  different  result.  We  saw  Harshal,  creating  stunning  tanks  (And  according  to  my  opinion,  his  tanks  can  beat  up  lots  of  APC  tanks.)  with  simple  DESHI  way  with  just  laterite  and  river  gravel.  And  there  are  many  people  who  failed  to  put  up  a  simple  small  tank  with  beginners  plant  even  after  using  ADA  AS.  Then  what  is  world  class  product  ??  Laterite+Sand  or  ADA  AS?  I  think,  there  is  no  world  class  accesorries  which  can  make  a  difference,  until  unless  the  creator  is  having  enough  knowledge  and  experience.
 
 
                                                 
nash81  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Also  in  a  world  class  tank  i  would  look  forward  to  see  some  exotic  plants  which  are  unique  and  not  available  anywhere  or  rarely  visible  atleast  in  india.  I  would  want  to  see  something  big  and  big  is  understated...  I  think  these  points  were  missed  as  well..
                 

 
 This  is  a  blunder  made  by  Rocky.  He  can't  even  think  about  any  hard  to  grow  variety,  as  he  does  not  have  any  knowledge  on  plants.  And  what  is  the  point  of  adding  those  plants  in  tank  you  don't  even  know  how  to  raise  them?
 
 
                                                 
nash81  wrote  (View  Post):                

 I  am  also  supprised  with  the  reactions.  I  understand  we  all  appreciate  the  effort  and  time  put  in.  But  an  exagerated  effort  displayed  dosent  mean  a  well  done  effort.  I  think  as  advisors  we  should  give  black  and  white  advice.  No  room  Sugar  coating  things.
 
 Lastly  I  mean  no  offense  to  the  team  that  set  it  up.  May  be  its  the  exageration  of  the  event  that  killed  the  rat  and  not  the  cat.                

 
 No  one  is  going  to  sugar  coat  things.  Cause  we  all  can  see  the  outcome  of  the  complete  event  in  picture.  And  I  think  we  don't  have  to  spare  a  single  word  to  say  it  is  a  failed  project,  Rocky  is  smart  enough  to  understand  the  same  by  himself.  But  even  after  that  Rocky  got  appreciation  from  most  of  us,  because  of  the  initiative  he  has  made.  
 
 Some  one  has  to  bell  the  Cat  and  Rocky  did  it.
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 It  takes  perseverance  with  the  art  to  deliver  world  class  tanks.  Rocky  you  should  check  out  the  AGA  tanks  when  ever  you  think  of  thinking  world  class.
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Severumkid
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 world  class  is  Ehiem,  Dupla,  Seachem,  Carib  sea  -  not  resun,  prodac  or  what  ever...
 Tirtha,  I  believe  that  I  understand  and  agree  to  great  extent  to  what  Nash  is  saying.  This  thread  is  nothing  but  a  false  hype  that  was  created.  It  was  a  fault  on  the  organizers'  part  that  they  did  not  have  required  no.  of  experienced  hobbyists  in  their  venture.  When  you  fuel  peoples  expectations  in  an  open  forum  and  succeed  in  disappointing  them  with  lousy  end  results  in  spite  of  using  so  called  world  products,  you  invite  criticism  on  your  self.
 
 Will  you  yourself  ever  post  something  like  this?  Let  us  say  a  spade,  a  spade  as  there  are  many  novices  like  me  who  wants  to  learn  many  a  things  from  serious  and  knowledgeable  aquarists.
 
 Dev.
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Matsyapremi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Congrats  Rocky  -  on  this  positive  step  towards  a  greater  awareness  among  the  fish  lovers.  Being  a  Mumbaite  and  in  service,  I  have  my  own  constraints  in  being  there  -  but  all  the  same,  here  is  wishing  you  and  team  the  very  best  in  all  you  seek  to  do.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 @Nash81  &  Severumkid.
 
 You  have  to  admit  there  was  such  a  lot  of  enthusiasm  &  hype  for  this  project,  that  it  obviously  raised  the  bar  in  terms  of  our  expectations.
 
 Go  through  the  whole  thread  to  get  a  pulse  of  what  was  actually  happening.
 
 Atleast  someone  had  the  enthusiasm  &  presence  of  mind  to  go  out  on  a  limb  and  try  to  increase  the  awareness  of  nature  aquariums.
 
 He  tried  &  failed.  OK.  He  accepted  it  himself,  but  atleast  he  tried.
 
 C'mon  guys  people  need  encouragement  to  do  better  not  be  discrimnated  when  they  have  failed.
 
 Rgds
 
 Prabhu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 @T2CHATTO
 
 I  understand  the  mixed  emotions  you  have.  But  i  am  still  taking  the  liberty  to  reply  (  sorry  to  madan  even  when  he  called  the  topic  closed  ).
 
 Here  are  my  pointers  to  tickle  your  brain.  
 *no  personal  offense  meant  to  anyone  reading  them*
 
 1)  World  Class  products  to  my  definition  are  those  that  have  proven  industry  and  user  rated  standards.  (  Prodac  is  not  in  the  list  or  even  close.  You  cant  call  a  product  world  class  cause  you  are  selling  or  are  a  dealer  with  the  same.  Do  that  in  your  marketing  advertisments  and  not  in  a  forum  open  to  discussion  )
 
 2)  You  build  an  expectation  of  an  event  which  you  claim  to  be  world  class  but  cannot  hold  upto.  Obviously  local  hobbyist  will  not  be  interested.  One  has  to  build  that  kind  of  cerdibility  by  actions  and  not  by  words.  The  failure  of  the  event  itself  talks  a  lot  of  the  reputation  you  hold.
 
 3)  40K  losses  are  only  claimed  not  verified  and  i  wonder  how  does  one  incur  those  when  your  setting  up  a  tank.  Secondly  have  we  analysed  why  is  the  same  person  always  claiming  loses  in  every  deal  he  does  largely.
 A  few  days  back  i  remember  someone  talking  abt  broken  MH  bulbs  and  loads  of  replacement  sent  and  the  same  seller  claiming  of  losses.  This  not  being  the  only  instance.  
 
 4)  If  i  place  myself  in  the  clients  shoes  and  look  at  the  tanks  i  am  not  sure  if  i  would  have  paid  the  person  myself.  Cause  the  expectation  set  was  "world  class".
 
 5)  The  Hi  tech  tank  shows  use  of  Chinese  Materials  like  the  surface  skimmer,  etc  once  again  explain  World  class  hitech  tank  ?  The  lighting  also  did  not  seem  to  be  MH  or  others  to  term  it  Hitech.
 
 6)  What  are  the  standards  we  as  a  forum  are  setting.  Especially  to  people  who  are  new  in  this  hobby  or  mid  way  and  lookforward  to  IAHians  as  their  soul  Guru's.  Reading  such  a  hype  and  reputed  members  acknowledging  a  dull  attempt.  I  am  not  sure  what  people  have  to  take  back.
 
 7)  I  do  hold  high  regard  to  every  hobbyist  who  put  in  the  time  and  effort  to  help  the  thread  owner  setup  the  tank.  Hats  off  to  them.  
 
 Cool  The  person  who  created  a  hype  for  the  whole  event  i  am  not  certain  if  i  hold  the  same  regard.  To  me  its  more  of  a  marketing  gymick.  
 
 The  rest  everyone  is  smart  enough  who  is  reading  this  to  understand  and  make  their  own  judgements.
 
 i  dont  wish  to  reply  any  further  to  such  a  disapointing  topic  of  9  pages  which  seemed  to  me  a  complete  waste  of  time.  
 
 So  i  would  go  with  Madan  on  this  and  term  my  dialogue  as  closed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

                                                   
Severumkid  wrote  (View  Post):                
world  class  is  Ehiem,  Dupla,  Seachem,  Carib  sea  -  not  resun,  prodac  or  what  ever...
 Tirtha,  I  believe  that  I  understand  and  agree  to  great  extent  to  what  Nash  is  saying.  This  thread  is  nothing  but  a  false  hype  that  was  created.  It  was  a  fault  on  the  organizers'  part  that  they  did  not  have  required  no.  of  experienced  hobbyists  in  their  venture.  When  you  fuel  peoples  expectations  in  an  open  forum  and  succeed  in  disappointing  them  with  lousy  end  results  in  spite  of  using  so  called  world  products,  you  invite  criticism  on  your  self.
 
 Will  you  yourself  ever  post  something  like  this?  Let  us  say  a  spade,  a  spade  as  there  are  many  novices  like  me  who  wants  to  learn  many  a  things  from  serious  and  knowledgeable  aquarists.
 
 Dev.                

 
 Dev  I  think  you  missunderstood  me.  Have  I  ever  wrote,  the  tank  is  looking  superb?  Or  it's  a  very  good  planted  tank?  I  didn't  say  this.  Right.
 
 Read  out  the  point  I  talked  about.  I  don't  agree  with  some  points  and  I  have  clear  up  myself  on  them.  And  if  you  really  want  to  compare  products  to  prove  it's  a  world  class  product,  then  just  write  down  the  points  of  saying  so.  Frankly  speaking  this  is  the  first  time  I  heard  but   the  brand  'Carib  sea'  and  not  sure  what  are  the  products  of  this  brand.  So  to  me  it  does  not  appear  like  a  so  called  world  class  product.  Again  Relativity  my  friend.
 
 Instead  of  beating  the  bush  Try  to  understand  what  I  have  said.  I  said,  may  be  it's  a  failure  to  make  a  High  Tech  Planted  tank  but  the  effort  should  be  appriciated  instead  of  just  calling  it  just  a  commertial  hype.  
 
 And  Dev.....  another  point  I  want  to  tell  you.  All  the  times  members  of  this  forum  using  kind  words  to  all  the  hobbyiests  who  even  displaying  poor  looking  Tanks.  Not  to  sugar  cote  anything  or  to  make  some  personal  profit.  We  all  know,  these  words  of  encouragements  will  take  any  hobbyiests  to  next  level  of  try.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Tirtha  if  what  anyone  creates  is  "world  class"  in  his  own  personal  opinion,  then  his  world  is  pretty  limited.
 
 Before  getting  only  one  planted  tank  enthusiast  involved  and  then  not  providing  him  with  the  necessary  requirements  for  a  planted  tank  is  very  poor  organisation.
 
 This  could  have  very  well  been  done  as  a  get  together  for  aquarists  who  are  collectively  sharing  their  knowledge  and  then  put  up  the  pictures  for  peoples  comments,  that  would  have  been  a  way  to  learn  and  share.
 
 Instead  this  was  touted  as   "world  class"  event  from  the  very  beginning,  with  "Medium  Beautiful  Planted  tank".
 
 I  wonder  why  none  of  the  members  did  not  rein  in  rocky  when  he  came  out  with  the  post  about  "medium  beautiful  planted  tank"  and  stop  him  for  badly  exposing  himself  to  ridicule.
 
 I  wasn't  around,  but  had  I  been  there,  I'd  have  told  him  to  stop  day  dreaming  and  finish  this  nonsense.
 
 Isn't  the  spirit  of  IAH  all  about  stopping  people  committing  blunders?
 
 I  only  read  comments  encouraging  him  on  to  his  doom  on  this  thread.  Don't  tell  me  even  one  of  the  posters  on  the  8-9  pages  in  this  thread  did  not  realise  this  was  a  doomed  venture  the  way  it  was  touted  from  the  very  beginning?
 
 Whatever  Rocky's  intention  was  -  to  promote  the  hobby  or  the  product  he  was  selling,  ("I  lost  40K"  -  so  it  was  a  commercial)  this  was  a  doomed  venture  from  the  first  post.
 
 And  NO  ONE  on  IAH  stopped  him.  
 
 Someone  said  the  truth  needs  to  be  told.
 
 I  say  it.
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nash81
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 @T2CHATTO
 
 Carib  Sea  is  more  of  a  marine  product  and  that  explains  why  u  havent  heard  it.  #1  in  marine  products  across  US.
 
 I  have  great  regard  to  every  hobbyist  and  would  love  to  encourage  them.
 
 The  attempt  here  was  NOT  by  a  hobbyist  but  a  businessman  (  LFS  )  who  spoke  in  terms  of  Losses.  Promoted  his  products,  etc.
 
 So  if  a  businessman  terms  he  is  setting  up  something  World  class  and  is  going  to  use  products  he  deals  in  will  which  are  not  world  class  will  you  still  show  encouragement  towards  the  business  man  who  is  doing  it  meerly  to  earn  profit  from  a  client  "KIDZEE"   
 
 As  i  have  mentioned  i  hold  great  regard  to  every  hobbyist  who  put  in  the  effort  and  time  in  setting  it  up  and  Hats  off  to  them.
 
 Had  this  attempt  been  that  of  a  hobbyist  who  did  it  for  the  passion  of  the  hobby.  I  dont  think  anyone  would  have  2  thoughts  around  this  topic.
 
 There  is  a  conflict  of  interest  here.  One  end  we  are  saying  encourage  the  Hobbyist  and  i  am  ok  with  that.  But  if  the  hobbyist  is  a  businessman  who  is  not  using  products  as  they  claim  to  be  why  would  i  encourage  that.  Help  me  understant  Tirtha.
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Hi  Nash,
 
 "1)  World  Class  products  to  my  definition  are  those  that  have  proven  industry  and  user  rated  standards.  (  Prodac  is  not  in  the  list  or  even  close.  You  cant  call  a  product  world  class  cause  you  are  selling  or  are  a  dealer  with  the  same.  Do  that  in  your  marketing  advertisments  and  not  in  a  forum  open  to  discussion  )"  
 
 
 Can  you  please  provide  any  link  which  is  showing  the  list  of  the  WORLD  CLASS  (!!!???!!!)  Products  with  proven  industry  and  user  rated  standards.  
 
 
 "2)  You  build  an  expectation  of  an  event  which  you  claim  to  be  world  class  but  cannot  hold  upto.  Obviously  local  hobbyist  will  not  be  interested.  One  has  to  build  that  kind  of  cerdibility  by  actions  and  not  by  words.  The  failure  of  the  event  itself  talks  a  lot  of  the  reputation  you  hold.  "
 
 
 You  mean  to  say....  local  hobbyiests  are  fortune  teller  that  they  can  see  the  future???  Interesting.  I  didn't  know  we  have  such  super  talents  in  West  Bengal.
 
 
 "3)  40K  losses  are  only  claimed  not  verified  and  i  wonder  how  does  one  incur  those  when  your  setting  up  a  tank.  Secondly  have  we  analysed  why  is  the  same  person  always  claiming  loses  in  every  deal  he  does  largely.  
 A  few  days  back  i  remember  someone  talking  abt  broken  MH  bulbs  and  loads  of  replacement  sent  and  the  same  seller  claiming  of  losses.  This  not  being  the  only  instance.  "

 
 I  think  you  don't  have  any  idea  of  these  branded  product  prices.  Get  the  price  list  and  calculate.  You  don't  have  to  depend  on  anyones  claims.  And  don't  get  the  reference  of  another  thread  when  we  have  enough  here  only.
 
 
 "4)  If  i  place  myself  in  the  clients  shoes  and  look  at  the  tanks  i  am  not  sure  if  i  would  have  paid  the  person  myself.  Cause  the  expectation  set  was  "world  class".  "
 
 No  one  is  forcing/insisting  you  to  buy  anything  in  this  9  pages  long  thread.
 
 
 "5)  The  Hi  tech  tank  shows  use  of  Chinese  Materials  like  the  surface  skimmer,  etc  once  again  explain  World  class  hitech  tank  ?  The  lighting  also  did  not  seem  to  be  MH  or  others  to  term  it  Hitech."  
 
 I  think  you  are  not  aware  about  the  term  what  is  'High  Tech'  is.  Surf  up  the  internet  to  know  what  it  is  exactly.  And  where  did  you  get  to  know  using  MH  is  stamping  a  tank  High  Tech??  Then  I  think  you  are  going  to  dump  ADANA  tubes  also  as  they  are  not  MH.
 
 
 "6)  What  are  the  standards  we  as  a  forum  are  setting.  Especially  to  people  who  are  new  in  this  hobby  or  mid  way  and  lookforward  to  IAHians  as  their  soul  Guru's.  Reading  such  a  hype  and  reputed  members  acknowledging  a  dull  attempt.  I  am  not  sure  what  people  have  to  take  back.  "
 
 Nash.....  I  think  you  are  not  aware  of  the  sirit  of  IAHans.  We  don't  simply  carried  away  with  gimic  or  we  don't  bang  up  someones  head  if  he  fails  to  meet  the  expectation.  We  cheer  him  up  for  the  next  time.  
 
 And  let  me  say  you  another  IAH  culture.  We  don't  call  anyone  with  their  Login  name,  when  the  real  name  is  there  in  the  Signature.  As  we  are  interacting  with  Human  Being.
 
 
 "7)  I  do  hold  high  regard  to  every  hobbyist  who  put  in  the  time  and  effort  to  help  the  thread  owner  setup  the  tank.  Hats  off  to  them."
 
 Why  not  the  thread  owner????????  Ultimately  he  is  taking  all  the  pain  of  arranging  everything.
 
 
 
 "i  dont  wish  to  reply  any  further  to  such  a  disapointing  topic  of  9  pages  which  seemed  to  me  a  complete  waste  of  time.  "
 
 Good  'Run  and  Hide'  formula  when  someone  cotradict  your  opinion.  Very Happy
 
 
 
 **  Nothing  Personal.  Smile
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nash81
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Lastly...  Were  the  hobbyist  paid  for  setting  up  the  tank  for  a  businessman.  He  was  surely  making  money  from  the  client  "  Kidzee  "  by  selling  his  products  etc.
 
 Were  the  hobbyst  used  merely  as  an  excuse  for  the  setup.  I  am  questioning  the  entire  event  in  totality  and  how  genuine  was  the  effort  from  the  person  who  thought  of  it.
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Setting up 3 different World Class Planted Tanks, Calcut Reply with quote

 Ooh  ,  lookee,  I  can  lock  this  thread!!
 
 Gentlemen,  it  seems  that  the  tensions  are  getting  really  high  here.
 Please  step  away  from  your  computers  and  get  some  coffee.
 Lets  all  go  look  at  some  nice  fish  and  calm  ourselves  down.
 Smile


Last edited by psimhan on Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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