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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture
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PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture
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Madan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:56 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Yes  Samar  you  have  it  bang  on  regarding  the  K2SO4  and  KNO3.
 Add  both  directly  to  the  aquarium  in  addition  to  what  is  in  the  PMDD.
 
 I  asked  Venket  and  ravi  to  add  extra  Boron  to  the  PMDD  as  they  were  experiencing  what  looked  like  Boron  Deficiency  -  New  leaves  crinkled  up  and  not  growing.  I  don't  find  the  need  to  do  this  in  Bangalore.
 
 It  must  be  something  in  Chennai  water  hindering  the  uptake  of  Boron  by  the  plants,  so  a  little  excess  helped  fortunately  !!!.  I  was  shooting  in  the  dark,  but  Ravi  and  Venket  willingly  tried  it  and  it  worked.
 
 MgSO4  7H20  is  the  same  as  Epsom  salts  sold  in  pharmacies.
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nag
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  All:
 
 You  can  also  obtain  K2SO4,  KNO3  and  MgSO4  from:
   The  Mysore  Fertilizer  Company
 #89,  3rd  Main  Road,  New  Tharagupet,
 Bangalore-  560  002  
 
 Ph:  26708148

 Contact:  Mr.  Krishnamurthy  BS  -  Manager
 Landmark:  Opp.  Prakash  Cafe  Resturant  on  Mysore  Road
 
 For  Lab  Grade,  Contact:
   Avinash  Chemicals
 #27,  1st  Main  Road,  Gandhinagar,
 Bangalore  -  560  009
 
 Ph:  2266470,  51139374,  98450-22579
 Fax:  2266062
 e-Mail:  avibind  [at]  yahoo.co  [dot]  in/nikkypatel@hotmail.com

 
 Contact  Person:  Mr.  Bindesh
 Landmark:  Building  next  to  Citibank,  Gandhinagar
 Also  available:  Universal  Indicator  Liquid  -  PH  4  to  11;  100ml  -  Rs.  57/-
 
 Bye,
 ___
 Nag
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joyban
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  All,
 
 Just  wanted  to  find  out  what  has  been  the  update  on  Fe-DTPA    and  on  Microsol-B  &  PMDD.  
 
 What  is  the  most  used  home  mixed  fertilizer  used  today  for  home  aquarists  in  India  and  what  is  the  dose  &  updated  formula  to  make  one..?
 
 Thanking  all  &  everybody  for  help  &  updates.
 
 Some  more  information  on  substrates  http://home.infinet.net/teban/how-to.html
 
 Steve's  Aquatic  Plant  Resource  Page
 http://home.infinet.net/teban/index.html
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sen
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:52 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Friends,
 I  am  lookin  for  one  of  our  thread  discussing  the  "preferred  substrate",  can  someone  help  me  on  this  pl.
 
 Thanks,
 G.Senthil  Kumar
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Atanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:40 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 To  add  this,  
 I  got  a  recipie  for  preparing  Fe-DTPA  on  net.  Do  not  know  how  effective  it  will  be...  or  if  DTPA  is  available  in  LAB  chemical  stores.  I  am  attaching  the  the  mail  below.
 "
 >1.    How  does  one  make  FeEDTA  or  FeDTPA?  I  have  found    several
 >chemical  supply  companies  that  sell  EDTA  and  DTPA,  but  what
 >Iron  chemical(s)  do  I  mix  with  it.    Or  is  there  a  source  I  don't
 >know  about  that  will  sells  it  premixed?
 
 Get  DTPA,  because  it  is  superior  to  EDTA  as  a  chelator.    Get  ferric
 sulfate,  FeSO4.7H2O.    It  is  easy  to  work  with  because  it  doesn't  absorb
 water  from  the  air  and  become  slushy.    Ferric  chloride  is  horrible  in  that
 respect.    Mix  a  molar  eqivalent  of  the  iron  sulfate  and  the  DTPA  together.
 The  molecular  weight  of  the  FeSO4.7H2O  is  278.02,  and  the  molecular  weight
 of  the  DTPA  is  393.35.    I  mix  it  at  0.01  molar,  about  200  mls  at  a  time.
 At  that  strength,  1  ml  per  gallon  of  water  gives  you  about  0.15  ppm  iron.
 Two  hundred  mls  of  0.01  molar  solution  would  contain  .002  moles  of  the
 FeSO4.7H2O,  or  0.556  grams(.002  moles  x  278.02  grams  per  mole)  and  .002
 moles  of  the  DTPA,  or  0.787  grams(.002  moles  x  393.35  grams  per  mole).
 Dissolve  both  the  iron  and  the  DTPA,  and  then  heat  the  mixture  to  boiling.
 If  mold  starts  growing  in  the  solution  later,  you  can  re-boil,  or  add  some
 hydrochloric  acid,  as  does  Kevin  Conklin  to  his  PMDD  recipe.    By  the  way,  I
 once  tried  to  make  0.1  molar  FeDTPA,  but  a  good  portion  precipitated  out,
 when  the  mixture  cooled.
 >
 >2.    Based  on  whatever  Iron  chemical  is  used,  how  much  of  each
 >chemical  does  one  mix  together  in  distilled  water:
 >                X  Iron  mixed  with  Y  EDTA  =  what  concentration  of  FeEDTA    or
                                 X  +  1.05  X  if  X  is  weight  of  FeSO4.7H2O
 >                X  Iron  mixed  with  Y  DTPA  =  what  concentration  of  FeDTPA    or
                                 X  +  1.41  X  if  X  is  weight  of  FeSO4.7H2O
 >                X  Iron  mixed  with  Y  EDTA  and  Z  DTPA  =  what  concentration.
                                 X  +(A  x  1.05  X  )  +  (B  x  1.41  X)  (where  A  is  the  fraction  of
 EDTA
                                 and  B  is  the  fraction  of  DTPA  you  want.    [A+B  should  =1]).    I
                                 don't  know  what  the  advantage  of  having  a  mixture  of  the  two
                                 chelators  is.  I  would  vote  for  having  all  iron  DTPA,  which
 lasts
                                 in  the  water  for  me  a  lot  longer  than  iron  EDTA.)
 
 Paul  Krombholz                                    Tougaloo  College,  Tougaloo,  MS    39174
 
 I  ought  to  be  doing  my  incom  tax!
 "
 
 Madan,  since  it  seems  you  are  the  one  who  is  still  in  touch  with  his  high  school  chemistry  knowledge,  you  can  actually  experiment  it  to  find  out  if  it  works  and  also  the  validity  of  the  above  thing.
 
 Regards
 Atanu
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Madan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Atanu,
 
 Paul  Krombholz  is  one  of  my  gurus  when  it  comes  to  planted  Aquaria.
 I'll  never  doubt  his  claims  or  calculations  here  in  this  case.  I  have  a  video  of  him  giving  a  talk  on  plant  nutrient  deficiencies,  the  quality  is  so  bad  that  we  simply  could  not  do  anything  to  help  it  along  and  screen  it  at  ASK  or  anywhere  else.
 
 I  have  tried  this  method  of  mixing  Ferric  Sulphate  +  EDTA  +  DPTA  in  the  good  old  days,  My  plants  grew  like  no  one's  business.  I  was  not  sure  if  the  DPTA  really  chelated  the  iron.
 
 I  then  discovered  Fe-EDTA  from  Lab  supply  stores,  which  I  used  for  my  PMDD.  Later  on  Microsol-B  came  along  and  made  life  a  lot  easier.
 
 The  cost  is  prohibitive.  Ferric  Sulphate,  Na  Edta,  and  Dtpa  salts  cost  Rs.850/-  for  500gms  each.  Smaller  packagings  are  not  available.
 The  calculations  and  weighing  of  chemicals  is  not  easy  for  me  or  anyone  else.
 I  can  do  it,  but  suggesting  the  same  for  all  is  giving  them  too  much  trouble.
 
 That's  why  I  suggested  Microsol-B  based  PMDD.  It's  easy,  cost  effective  and  most  importantly  works  for  everyone.  I  have  heard  no  complaints  about  this  nor  do  I  have  any  complaints  as  a  user  over  3  years  myself.
 
 Dose  Microsol-B  based  PMDD  after  lights  out  each  night.
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Atanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Ohh  yes,
 I  am  doing  that..  dosing  pmdd  every  night(your  formula).  Atleast  I  have  reverted  back  the  potassium  deficiency..as  I  can  see  the  difference..  My  amazon  is  bringing  out  stalks..  don't  know  they  r  for  flower  or  for  plantlets..  Need  to  figure  it  out.  Banana  also  gave  out  a  flower  stalk(this  was  the  plant  which  was  showing  deficiency).  Since  its  sunlight  and  nowadays  in  Bangalore  there  is  no  sun  Smile  ,  so  not  much  of  pearling.
 
 -Atanu
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Atanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Bye  the  way..  I  figured  that  injecting  the  pmdd  at  the  base  of  the  root  feeders  help  them  faster  in  recovering..  I  use  a  injection  syringe  to  push  the  pmdd  soution  as  far  as  it  can  go  in  the  substrate.  I  have  also  tried  injecting  the  deficient  leaves  directly..  but  controlling  the  amount  is  very  difficult.  In  one  case  the  leave  came  out  fine..  and  the  growing  deficiency  syndrome  stopped  altogether.  
 In  another  case,  the  whole  leaf  died  by  next  day  9:00  clock.
 
 -Atanu
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Madan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Echinodorus  will  put  out  multiple  flowers  at  each  node  and  from  between  these  will  come  out  plantlets.  Just  let  them  be  until  they  develop  roots  then  nip  and  transplant  them.
 
 Injecting  the  PMDD  into  the  substrate  will  not  make  any  difference  as  it  will  come  back  to  the  water  column  almost  immediately.
 
 Anyway  if  you  feel  it  works  for  you  well  and  good.  I  dose  everything  to  the  water  column  nowadays.  Less  trouble.  No  more  clay  balls,  laterite  balls  mixed  with  fertilisers.  I  never  did  see  any  advantage  with  these  methods  only  additional  labor  and  wet  sleeves.  Smile  
 
 I  now  have  concluded  water  plants  do  not  need  substrate  fertilisation.  They  are  aquatic  plants  and  perfectly  capable  of  absorbing  all  nutrients  through  the  leaves.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:32 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Madan,
 
 Did  you  mean  to  say  that  we  don't  have  to  put  laterite  as  a  base  substrate?  But  I  saw  huge  differance  with  and  without  that.
 
 regards
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Madan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:12 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 No  amitava,
 I  never  said  no  need  of  laterite.
 
 Laterite  increases  CEC  of  the  substrate.  The  decaying  matter  gets  attached  to  these  points  and  is  available  to  the  plants.  Laterite  is  needed  for  a  planted  tank  with  fish  and  for  plants  that  need  to  be  anchored.
 
 If  you  use  another  substarte  that  can  provide  increased  CEC  then  laterite  too  is  not  needed.  For  us  it  is  the  cheapest  option  available.
 
 How  do  plant  farms  grow  their  plants.  Hydroponically  using  glass  wool  to  anchor  the  plants.  All  nutrients  are  in  the  water.
 
 What  about  soilless  planted  tanks.  I  have  a  whole  tank  of  java  ferns  without  any  laterite  at  all  in  the  tank.  All  nutritents  are  added  to  the  water  column.
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sen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:50 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Madan  
 What  is  the  the  breakdown,  components-wise  for  Fetrilon-Combi  1  EDTA  ?
 
 Thanks,
 G.Senthil  Kumar
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Mohanasundaram
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/pmdd.htm
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sen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Mohan,
 I  was  enquiring  abt  the  breakup  of  "Fetrilon-Combi  1  EDTA"  ,  not  PMDD
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
sen  wrote:                
Hi  Mohan,
 I  was  enquiring  abt  the  breakup  of  "Fetrilon-Combi  1  EDTA"  ,  not  PMDD                

 
 Hi  Sen,
           It  is  not  for  you.  I  found  that  good  article  and  just  wanted  to  share.  Sorry  that  it  came  after  your  posting.
 
 Regards,
 Mohan.
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