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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture
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PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture
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Madan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 The  old  recommended  Fe  reserve  was  0.1  -  0.2  ppm.  Tom  Barr's  research  indicates  0.5-0.7  ppm  too  is  ok.  I  would  still  go  for  a  reserve  of  0.2  ppm.
 
 The  dosage  will  get  you  to  0.1  -0.2  ppm  iron  without  a  hitch.  It's  uptake  again  which  is  a  question.  That  dosage  is  right  at  2-3  watts  per  gallon.
 
 Now  you  cannot  recommend  a  dosage  for  some  many  variables,  MH  light,  T5,  etc.
 Start  with  that  dosage,  and  watch  your  plants.  Increase  or  decrease  as  you  like.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Madan,  Rana,  thanks  for  the  info.  Am  trying  to  get  someone  from  Bangalore  to  courier  me  MICROSOL-B.
 Have  a  nice  weekend
 Cheers
 Vince
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Ranjitpai
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Hi  Madan  
 
 went  through  this  complete  thread.  However  i  have  some  questions  the  answers  might  be  there  already  but  i  dont  seem  to  have  found  them  ,  also  i  want  to  be  sure  that  i  am  doing  the  right  thing  so  please  bear  with  me.  
 
 I  got  
 
 KNo3  ,  K2so4  ,  i  want  to  dose  these  separately  and  dry.  I  got  the  funda  that  i  need  to  dose  these  immediately  after  a  water  change  (  50  %  )  recommended.  
 
 Chucks  estimates  have  a  threshold  or  target  ppm  for  each  of  these  ,  i  have  a  planted  6  foot  tank  and  estimate  is  about  500  litres  or  130-140  gallons.  
 
 KNO3  -  If  add  .8  tea  spoons  0r  about  4  gms  it  comes  close  to  the  4.8  ppm.  target  5  ppm  as  per  the  calculator
 
 
 K2so4  however  the  target  is  20  ppm  and  it  comes  to  3.5  tea  spoons  ,  17.79  ppm  which  is  close  to  the  target.  when  i  read  the  posts  i  dont  see  such  a  big  difference  in  qties  of  the  two  chemcicals  hence  i  need  clarifications  because  the  calulator  target  ppm  is  very  different.
 
 Am  i  reading  the  calculator  right  ,  i  dont  want  to  dose  till  i  am  doubly  sure  ,  i  dnt  want  to  kill  my  plants  in  the  tank  or  get  a  big  algae  bloom.  Please  let  me  know  if  my  inference  is  right.  
 
 Also  is  it  ok  to  dose  after  say  a  couple  of  days  of  water  change  ...  if  yes  what  reductions  /  additions  i  need  to  do  assuming  that  i  didint  dose  anything  then
 
 Please  help  me  answer  the  above  
 
 Thanks  
 Ranjit  Pai
 
 
 
 Mag  sulphate  /  Microsol  -  I  am  clear  about  the  dosing  these.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Hi  Ranjit,
 
 You  have  to  check  how  many  ppm  K  will  be  added  along  with  the  KNO3  from  the  calculator.
 
 Subtract  this  from  the  target  20  ppm.
 
 Also  if  you  dose  KH2PO4  for  phosphates,  this  too  will  contribute  K.  Deduct  this  ppm  of  K  also  from  20  ppm.
 
 You  can  find  all  these  K  additions  from  the  calculator.
 
 Then  use  the  calculator  to  find  K2SO4  needed  to  make  up  the  deficiency.
 
 Chuck's  dosage  limits  is  for  2-3  watt/gallon  medium  light  aquaria.
 
 If  you  use  3-5  watt/gallon  light,  Estimative  index  is  what  you  need  and  there  the  limits  are  up,  for  K  it  is  20-30  ppm,  NO3  -  20-30  ppm,  PO4  about  1ppm.  CO2  should  be  up  there  at  20+  ppm.
 
 That's  where  you  see  the  high  levels  of  NO3  appearing  in  the  thread  and  leading  to  your  doubts,  the  thread  has  been  going  on  for  so  long  now.  Anyway  it's  better  to  leave  it  as  it  is  and  get  the  clarifications  in.
 
 Depending  on  your  light  levels  keep  K,  NO3  and  PO4  at  about  20-30  ppm,  10-30  ppm  and  0.2-1  ppm  you  will  be  OK.
 
 If  your  macro  levels  are  up  and  you  get  algae,  then  it  is  CO2  that  is  lacking  or  you  have  an  ammonia  spike.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Hi  madan  
 
 Got  it  ,  thanks  ,  wil  rework  and  send  you  if  all  ok  ,  please  give  a  go  ahead.  
 
 Thanks  
 Ranjit
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Hi  madan  
 
 done  the  calculations  
 
 Kno3  -  .8  tea  spoons  will  give  
 
 Nitrate  -  4.8  ppm  (  target  5  )  
 
 K  -  3.05  (  target  20  )
 
 
 k2so4
 2.5  tea  spoons  will  give  11.86  ppm  +  3.05  =  15  ppm  including  the  above.  
 
 Apart  from  this  mirosol  b  1  ml  per  280  litres  should  give  the  rest  of  the  K.  Please  let  me  know  if  this  is  a  good  start.  or  is  there  some  other  better  way  to  do  this  
 
 shld  i  reduce  k2so4
 
 
 Thanks  
 Ranjit  Pai
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Buddy,
   In  a  well  established  tank  the  nitrates  are  very  well  generated  by  the  Feed  itslef,  So  be  ware  of  that,  Your  nitrate  dosage  at  that  point  of  time  should  go  down.
 
   Madan  et  all....
   Are  there  any  sources  where  we  get  pottasium  in  its  molecular  form.  Rather  than  in  the  compound  form  (not  the  lab  grade),  I  see  a  bit  of  pottasium  defitiency,  But  nitrates  and  phosphates  are  high  as  my  tank  is  crowded.  I  am  in  a  short  span  gonna  give  away  my  fishes  and  house  much  lesser  number  of  fishes,  But  in  the  mean  time  i  was  just  wondering  if  pottasium  can  be  fed  directly  to  the  tank  in  its  molecular  form.
 
 Regards
 Raghu
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  Help  ...  What  about  the  potassium  ,  is  it  ok  
 
 Thanks  
 Ranjit  Pai
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Raghu
 
 You  can  not  use  Potassium  in  molecular  form.  You  will  only  get  Potassium  in  compound  form  like  Potassium  Chloride  or  Sulphate  or  Iodide  etc.
 
 Potassium  is  a  highly  reactive  metal.  Free  Potassium  will  not  be  stable  and  readily  react  with  water  to  form  Potassium  Hydroxide  which  will  raise  your  tank  water  drastically  (Hydroxyl  Alkalinity).  
 
 Regards
 Rana
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Raghu  you  can  buy  Potassium  Metal.  It  is  in  the  atomic  form  not  even  molecular  and  is  preserved  in  kerosene  or  similar  substance.
 
 When  you  add  it  to  the  aquarium  it  will  generate  heat  and  probably  get  the  water  to  a  boil  and  form  caustic  potash,  Release  Hydrogen  gas  and  be  a  potential  bomb.
 
 Now  why  do  you  want  "Molecular  Potassium"?  I  don't  understand  the  question.
 
 K2O,  KNO3,  K2SO4  are  molecular  forms  of  Potassium.
 
 Ranjit,
 
 What  you  have  in  mind  is  just  fine.  No  issues  there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Hey,
   What  i  wanted  to  know  was  something  like  a  K2O  or  a  KOH  which  does  not  contain  Phosphates  or  Nitrates  and  wanted  to  get  more  data  on  it  before  i  try  it,  I  am  not  sure  if  even  that  is  safer  to  be  dosed  to  the  tank.  I  was  looking  at  alternatives  so  that  i  do  not  have  too  much  of  nitrates  sulphates  or  phosphates  but  still  i  could  bring  up  my  pottasium  level  in  the  tank.
 
 
 Raghu
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 If  you  can  find  K2O  please  let  us  know  how  good  it  is  for  a  planted  aquarium.  Any  product  containing  K2O  (Flora  Pride  or  some  such  name  is  one)has  been  rejected  long  ago  in  the  hobby.  I  threw  away  my  bottle  long  ago.
 
 KOH?  Dunno.  It's  scary.
 
 Forget  alternatives,  KNO3,  K2SO4  are  time  tested  in  agricultural  use.  No  need  to  reinvent  the  wheel.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:57 am Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Adding  KOH  is  not  really  feasible.  It  ranks  with  NaOH  as  one  of  the  strongest  alkalis  -  pH  nearabout  14.  Figuratively  speaking  it  is  the  diametric  opposite  of  HCl,  H2SO4  or  HNO3.
 
 K2O  is  no  joke  either.  Reacts  VIOLENTLY  with  water  (what  I  remember  from  my  school  chemistry)  producing  (of  course)  KOH.
 
 If  your  nitrates  and  phosphates  are  high  while  your  potassium  is  low  the  trick  might  be  more  water  changes  while  continuing  dosing!
 
 deepesh
 
 KOH  is  commonly  'caustic  postash'  and  that  caustic  really  means  caustic.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Hi  All  
 
 
 Thanks  for  all  inputs.   It  would  be  great  if  you  also  give  us  information  on  these  chemicals  ,  general  care  ,  what  to  do  in  case  it  comes  in  contact  with  eyes  or  swallowed  by  mistake  
 
 It  would  help  people  like  me  ...  (  half  knowledge  is  dangerous  )  ,  
 
 This  occured  to  me  as  the  microsol  was  in  the  fridge  and  i  was  out  on  tour  and  suddenly  remembered  in  the  night  hoping  no  one  sips  it   Surprised  
 
 Sounds  funny  but  truth  ,  remebered  the  time  i  swallowed  white  vinegar  thinking  its  water   ROFL  
 
 Thanks
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: PMDD - Micronutrient Mixture Reply with quote

 Its  not  funny.  I  have  my  bottle  of  PMDD  in  the  fridge.  Once  during  a  function  in  the  house,  one  of  the  ladies  felt  thirsty,  opened  the  fridge  and  took  2  good  swigs  before  she  realised  it  wasn't  sweet  or  tasted  odd.
 
 This  was  despite  the  fact  that  the  bottle  was  labelled  with  skull  and  crossbones  and  on  it  was  written  "Fertilizer  -DO  NOT  DRINK"
 
 She  showed  no  ill-effects  although,  I  made  her  visit  a  doctor  with  the  packet  of  Microsol-B  to  confirm  that  no  internal  damage  was  done.  She  and  her  better  half  were  mighty  embarrassed  though  Very Happy
 
 I  still  keep  the  bottle  in  the  fridge  Very Happy
 
 What  really  scares  me  though  are  the  bottles  of  Glutaraldehyde  and  Chloroform  for  my  experiments  with  acrylic.  These  are  double  sealed  and  stored  on  the  highest  shelf  in  my  house  at  the  very  back  and  every  resident  of  the  house  has  been  instructed  not  to  touch  them.
 
 KNO3/K2SO4/KH2PO4  are  kept  on  top  of  the  tank  -  don't  really  worry  about  them...
 
 Regards,
 Venkat
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