Home
Home
Forums
Forums
Downloads
Downloads
Account
Account
Advertise on IAH
Main Menu   
 
HomeHome  
    Home
Community  
    Forums
    FAQ
    Content
    Gallery
    Reviews
    Surveys
    Topics
Members  
    Private Messages
    Your Account
    Profile
    Members List
Statistics  
    Statistics
Files & Links  
    Downloads
    Web Links
News  
    News
    Submit News
Other  
    Advertising
    Shout Box
    Site Map
    Recommend Us
    Feedback
    Legal Notices


User Info   
 
Good morning 
Anonymous



Register
Lost Password
Username
Password

 Online:   
Member(s):

Guest(s):
01. Guest
02. Guest
03. Guest
04. Guest
05. Guest
06. Guest
07. Guest
08. Guest
09. Guest
10. Guest
11. Guest
12. Guest
13. Guest
14. Guest
15. Guest
16. Guest
17. Guest
18. Guest
19. Guest
20. Guest
21. Guest
22. Guest
23. Guest
24. Guest
25. Guest
26. Guest
27. Guest
28. Guest
29. Guest
30. Guest
31. Guest
32. Guest
33. Guest
34. Guest
35. Guest
36. Guest
37. Guest
38. Guest
39. Guest
40. Guest
41. Guest
42. Guest
43. Guest
44. Guest
45. Guest
46. Guest
47. Guest
48. Guest
49. Guest
50. Guest
51. Guest
52. Guest
53. Guest
54. Guest
55. Guest
56. Guest
57. Guest
58. Guest
59. Guest
60. Guest
61. Guest
62. Guest
63. Guest
64. Guest
65. Guest
66. Guest
67. Guest
68. Guest
69. Guest
70. Guest
71. Guest
72. Guest
73. Guest
74. Guest
75. Guest
76. Guest
77. Guest
78. Guest
79. Guest
80. Guest
81. Guest
82. Guest
83. Guest
84. Guest
85. Guest
86. Guest
87. Guest
88. Guest
89. Guest
90. Guest
91. Guest
92. Guest
93. Guest
94. Guest
95. Guest
96. Guest
97. Guest
98. Guest
99. Guest
100. Guest
101. Guest
102. Guest
103. Guest
104. Guest
105. Guest
106. Guest
107. Guest
108. Guest
109. Guest
110. Guest
111. Guest
112. Guest
113. Guest
114. Guest
115. Guest
116. Guest
117. Guest
118. Guest
119. Guest
120. Guest
121. Guest
122. Guest
123. Guest
124. Guest
125. Guest
126. Guest
127. Guest
128. Guest
129. Guest
130. Guest
131. Guest
132. Guest
133. Guest
134. Guest
135. Guest
136. Guest
137. Guest
138. Guest
139. Guest
140. Guest
141. Guest
142. Guest
143. Guest
144. Guest
145. Guest
146. Guest
147. Guest
148. Guest
149. Guest
150. Guest
151. Guest
152. Guest
153. Guest
154. Guest
155. Guest
156. Guest
157. Guest
158. Guest
159. Guest
160. Guest
161. Guest
162. Guest
163. Guest
164. Guest
165. Guest
166. Guest
167. Guest
168. Guest
169. Guest
170. Guest
171. Guest
172. Guest
173. Guest
174. Guest
175. Guest
176. Guest
177. Guest
178. Guest
179. Guest
180. Guest
181. Guest
182. Guest
183. Guest
184. Guest
185. Guest
186. Guest
187. Guest

Most Ever Online:   
 Guest(s): 796
 Member(s): 0
 Total: 796

Forums Forums:   
 Posts: 340,124
 Topics: 30,834




http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - flower horns in India
Forum Index  |  Search  |  Usergroups  |  Edit your profile  |  Members  |  Log in to check your private messages
Ranks  |  Staff  |  Statistics  |  Board Rules  |  Forum FAQ  |  Log in



flower horns in India
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ Forum Index -> Cichlids
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nag
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Oct 19, 2003
Posts: 1853
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:37 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Hi  Navil:                                                    
Quote:                
...flowerhorn  was  the  fish  to  keep  in  your  home....                

 
 What  is  interesting  is  the  choice  of  the  pastense...  Surprised  
 Bye,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
venki25
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 409
Location: Chennai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:58 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 I  agree  with  Navil
 
 FH's  are  "AN  INTERESTING  FISH  TO  KEEP".  With  a  front,  you  look  for  hump-  breeding  style  ,  for  a  vieja  you  look  for  color,  for  RD  you  look  for  attitude.  All  are  available  with  a  FH.
 
 I  agreee  hybridisation  is  non  conventional,  high  level  of  hybridisation  like  dyeing  of  parrots  are  cruelty.  But  FHs  are  not  involved  like  that.  Fhs  are  not  non  fertile,  good  quality  breeding  produces  fertile  offspring.  I  haven't  experienced  this  but  i  visit  a  lot  of  forums  and  i  have  come  across  some  people  who  are  successful  in  their  anticipation.  I  do  agree  there  are  some  freaks  exploit  these  fishes,  for  example  in  one  batch  of  fries  there  might  be  some  odd  looking  fish  maybe  a  mutation  (  i  cannot  technically  explain)  like  a  fish  turning  out  to  be  a  dwarf.  I  know  some  breeders  from  Indonesia  trying  to  sell  these  FHs  as  Dwarf  Fhs.  I  have  seen  some  cruel  exploitation  like  some  fhs  coming  out  with  a  long  snout  -  being  termed  as  elephant  god  -  yuck.
 
 If  anyone  is  truly  against  hybridisation  lets  start  off  with  Gold  fishes.  I  can  use  my  70  gallon  tank  keep  only  2  gold  fishes  (instead  of  20)  and  make  them  grow  out  to  6-7"  and  weight  something  like  2  kgs.  It  can  be  done  right???.  Suddenly  it  can  be  a  boom  in  our  industry,  there  might  also  be  someone  saying  they  don't  have  clear  bloodlines  and  and  horror  in  this  industry.  But  wouldn't  this  be  heights  if  someone  says  take  it  to  the  frying  pan.  
 
 So  let's  refrain  using  suggestions  like  frying  pan  or  BBQ.  I  look  to  my  Fhs  for  chalenge  -  improving  its  color,  head,  pearl  etc...  I  like  its  attitude  in  charging  to  strangers  and  looking  for  playing  with  me.  Its  like  a  puppy  dog  much  better  than  an  oscar.  Just  because  hybridisation  is  non  conventional  i  cannot  be  a  bad  owner  in  taking  to  frying  pan,  an  idiot  would  dump  them  into  local  waters.  
 
 Instead  let's  try  and  explain  people  that  these  fishes  are  not  a  speciality  in  breeding  and  breeds  every  20  days  and  their  fries  are  not  special  gift.  Any  succesful  breeder  should  cull  non  potential  ones  and  not  all  fishes  should  reach  the  LFS  and  that  LFS  should  not  exploit  the  market  with  high  prices.  I  think  it  is  sense  and  professionals  like  us  should  suggest  humane  methods  of  killing  a  grown  out  fish  than  just  BBQ.
 
 MHO  sirs.
 
 Nag  and  you  have  taken  up  my  challenge  yet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madan
Admin
Admin



Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 7087
Location: Bengaluru, India

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Venki,  first  of  all  Gold  fish  are  not  hybrids.  The  various  varieties  you  see  are  all  man  made  varieties  no  doubt  but  it  has  all  been  achieved  through  "selective"  breeding  of  the  "SAME"  species.  Big  difference.
 
 Flower  Horns  are  unnatural  -  two  species  which  would  never  probably  interbreed  were  combined,  injected  with  hormones,  the  eggs  and  milt  was  stripped  and  fertilised  in  a  dish.  The  young  unfortunately  turned  fertile.  Unlike  the  blood  parrots  which  turned  out  infertile.
 
 It  is  this  form  of  human  intervention  everyone  is  against.  Kapish.
 
 Coloring  fish  using  dye  is  not  called  "high  level  of  hybridisation".  It  is  cruelty.
 
 To  discourage  people  from  doing  all  this  and  more,  stop  buying  FH  and/or  threaten  to  take  it  the  frying  pan  or  BBQ,  report  to  SPCA,  ban  their  possession/import/breeding/export  or  whatever,  your  form  of  protest  is  not  in  question  here.  What  you  are  protesting  against  is  what  is  important.
 
 Read  up  on  the  origins  of  the  Flower  Horn  and  the  scam  which  was  perpetuated  to  capitalise  on  this  fish.  Read  about  the  havoc  these  fish  have  caused  when  accidently  or  stupidly  released  into  lakes,  streams  and  rivers.  Read  about  the  thousands  of  poor  who  went  bankrupt  buying  this  fish,  and  the  millions  others  made  selling  this.
 
 You  will  not  read  all  this  in  the  FH  forums  you  visit.  Do  a  Google  for  "Lao  Ban"  or  was  it  "  Lao  han"  or  Flower  horn.
 
 AND  if  you  STILL  want  to  encourage  all  this  go  ahead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vijayblr
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 216


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
STILL  want  to  encourage  all  this  go  ahead                

 
 This  pretty  much  shows  your  stand.  And  I  would  like  to  follow  in  the  footsteps  of  people  like  Madhu  and  Madanji.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
venki25
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Dec 04, 2004
Posts: 409
Location: Chennai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Nor  more  arguments  with  Madan,  i'm  a  kid  in  terms  of  my  physique  as  well  as  knowledge  on  fishes  in  comparison  with  him.  I  will  continue  with  FHs  as  i  i'm  doing  with  only  the  current  pair  none  afterwards.
 
 But  lets  all  refrain  from  using  words  like  BBQ,  frying  pan.
 
 Regards
 
 Venkatesh.
 
 Peace  be  to  all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
madhu_ulysses
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2450
Location: Salem, TN

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
venki25  wrote:                

 FH's  are  "AN  INTERESTING  FISH  TO  KEEP".  With  a  front,  you  look  for  hump-  breeding  style  ,  for  a  vieja  you  look  for  color,  for  RD  you  look  for  attitude.  All  are  available  with  a  FH.
                 

 Fishes  are  living  entities  to  be  understood  and  admired  not  assembled!
 
 
                                                 
venki25  wrote:                

 I  agreee  hybridisation  is  non  conventional,  high  level  of  hybridisation  like  dyeing  of  parrots  are  cruelty.  But  FHs  are  not  involved  like  that.  Fhs  are  not  non  fertile,  good  quality  breeding  produces  fertile  offspring.  I  haven't  experienced  this  but  i  visit  a  lot  of  forums  and  i  have  come  across  some  people  who  are  successful  in  their  anticipation.
                 

 Its  not  about  the  techniques  involved.    Its  about  the  Ethics.    When  there  are  1500+  species  of  cichlids  what  is  the  purpose  of  creating  a  new  one?    Big  Profits  nothing  except  that!!!    What  right  do  these  people  think  they  have  got  to  redisign  or  alter  Mother  Nature's  Creations?
 
 
                                                 
venki  wrote:                

 But  wouldn't  this  be  heights  if  someone  says  take  it  to  the  frying  pan.  
 So  let's  refrain  using  suggestions  like  frying  pan  or  BBQ.  
                 

 Why  not  Venki?    Its  highly  personal  to  the  person  who  comments.    If  people  can  eat  a  tuna  or  a  shark  which  is  endangered  why  not  a  flowerhorn?    I've  seen  your  comments  on  a  huge  tiger  shovelnose  cat  that  it  looks  yummy!    Its  something  similar  to  it!
 
 My  view  is  not  to  oppose  yours  venki  but  what  im  trying  to  say  is  im  stictly  against  people  (like  the  ones  who  created  flowerhorns)  who  take  Mother  Nature  for  granted!
 
 Bottomline:  Not  only  Madan  and  myself  but  a  lotta  Ichthyologists  and  serious  hobbyists  are  against  hybrids  for  one  reason  that  we  do  not  have  any  right  to  alter  or  re-design  Mother  Nature!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
oscar-lover
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 1070
Location: Dallas , TX

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 11:32 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Dear  Venki25,  I  have  never  kept  flower  horns  and  will  never  do  because  i  have  one  strong  reason  that  these  are  mutants....if  you  are  hobbyist  looking  for  color,aggression,body  markings,HUMP  or  whatever  i;m  sure  that  u  can  find  a  lot  more  TRUE  BLOODED  CICHLIDS  out  there  which  can  probably  satisfy  your  hunger...as  far  as  the  BBQ  of  the  FH  goes...i  would  still  stick  to  Mr  Madan's  statement  "Would  you  eat  a  mule?"....you  also  compared  an  Oscar  to  the  Flower  Horn...luckily  OSCAR's  happen  to  be  my  all  time  favourite  fish,  its  more  gentle  natured,never  bites  or  charges  anyone  in  front  of  the  tank,  is  more  prettier,  and  its  got  its  own  bloodline.  So  FYI,  oscars  got  the  name  as  the  PUPPY  DOG's  of  Aquarium  long  before  the  FH's  got  it  and  strongly  believe  that  there  wont  be  any  better  version  of  it,    kapeeesh  ..  what  you  see  in  your  FH  is  a  mere  mix  of  various  emotions  from  various  species....i  dont  think  the  FH  has  some  of  its  own.....well  dont  take  this  your  heart  dear  friend,  as  people  say  "  BEAUTY  LIES  IN  THE  EYES  OF  THE  BEHOLDER    Shocked  "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
sicklidonmind
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 13


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:39 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
venki25  wrote:                
                                                 
nag  wrote:                
                                                 
Quote:                
...I'll  bet  none  can  identify  such  complex  Fhs  in  India...                

 
 Well,  what's  the  bet??...  Smile                

 
 Chief  i'll  bet  a  with  drink  and  a  great  dinner  at  Leela  palace  in  B'lore  if  you  can  spot  good  qulaity  Kamfas.
 
 Check  this  link  on  how  a  kamfa  molts.  Would  anyone  around  keep  such  a  molting  fish  after  having  spent  huge  sum.  I  have  seen  one  LFS  -  had  a  molting  kamfa  and  the  LFS  put  him  in  medicated  tank  suspecting  some  disease  and  ultimately  had  the  fish  killed.
 
 http://www.palhs.com/forums2/index.php?showtopic=22459&hl=molting
 
 Please  do  not  try  to  read  the  foreign  language.  Pictures  speaks  a  lot.                

 
 
 
 I  think  u  are  kinda  underestimating  the  indian  flowerhorn  hobbyist.  agreed  that  most  ppl  wont  know  how  to  differentiate  between  a  Zen  Zhou  and  a  Jin  Hua  or  kamfa  but  i  bet  there  are  a  lotta  ppl  in  india  who  have  been  into  flowerhorns  since  a  year  or  two  and  have  taken  the  pains  to  learn  about  them.  Infact  as  regards  to  the  differentiating  between  kamfa  or  jh  and  the  ZZ  there  are  various  physical  characteristics  that  make  it  very  easy  for  anyone  who  studies  flowerhorns  to  identify  what  category  it  will  fall  into.


Last edited by sicklidonmind on Tue May 03, 2005 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sicklidonmind
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 13


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:48 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 sorry  for  double  posting  but  as  regards  the  concern  about  hybridrized  goldfish  vs  flowerhorns  i  feel  that  as  long  as  flowerhorns  are  kept  responsibly  and  not  released  in  lakes  and  rivers  or  other  water  bodies  it  really  shouldnt  be  a  problem.  If  anyone  were  to  say  that  because  flowerhorns  are  hybrids  one  shldnt  keep  em  then  to  them  id  say  dont  keep  what  are  known  as  red  devils  as  there  are  really  no  true  labiatus  or  citrinellus  in  the  hobby  unless  they  come  from  a  source  like  jeff  rapps  as  they  are  highly  intermixed....in  the  same  vein  what  most  of  us  call  green  terror  or  the  aequidens  rivulatus  is  not  the  true  grenn  terror  as  most  of  the  stock  in  the  hobby  is  a  mix  blooded  fish  between  the  blue  acara  and  the  true  rivulatus.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sicklidonmind
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 13


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:52 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

 and  madan  no  direspect  to  u  but  parrots  are  not  always  infertile,  agreed  that  a  high  percentage  of  MALES  are  but  females  are  99%  fertile  i  know  that  thru  experience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
beta
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 4263
Location: Chennai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:08 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
sicklidonmind  wrote:                
....in  the  same  vein  what  most  of  us  call  green  terror  or  the  aequidens  rivulatus  is  not  the  true  grenn  terror  as  most  of  the  stock  in  the  hobby  is  a  mix  blooded  fish  between  the  blue  acara  and  the  true  rivulatus.                

 
 Are  you  sure?  I  really  don't  think  Green  Terrors  are  hybrids,  if  they  had  been  crossed  with  A.  pulcher  they  wouldn't  really  grow  8-10  inches.
 
 and  talking  about  parrots...only  a  very  small  percentage  of  males  are  not  sterile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Madan
Admin
Admin



Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 7087
Location: Bengaluru, India

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:12 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
sicklidonmind  wrote:                
and  madan  no  direspect  to  u  but  parrots  are  not  always  infertile,  agreed  that  a  high  percentage  of  MALES  are  but  females  are  99%  fertile  i  know  that  thru  experience.                

 
 Yes  they  are,  but  nothing  is  predictable.  It  very  rare  that  one  can  breed  Blood  parrots  unlike  flower  horns.
 
 I  don't  think  any  of  the  other  fish  you  mention  were  subject  to  X-ray  irradiation  of  the  fertilised  eggs  etc  as  the  flower  horns  have  gone  through  to  get  the  various  forms.  And  none  of  the  interbreeding  was  done  with  an  intention  of  creating  something  to  make  a  quick  buck.
 
 Encourage  all  this,  next  you'll  have  genetically  modified  fish...  they  are  already  there....  Singapore  banned  their  import  and  sale  so  they  have  kind  of  died  off  in  the  market  or  we  would  be  talking  about  them  instead  of  flower  horns  today.
 
 As  much  as  you  have  FH  enthusiasts  there  are  more  hobbyists  who  are  against  human  intervention.....  and  BTW  FH  did  not  become  popular  for  their  puppy  like  qualities......  they  got  popular  due  a  story  spread  in  the  news  papers  that  the  markings  on  their  flanks  showed  up  Chinese  numerals  which  the  owner  bet  on  in  a  lottery  and  won  millions.  
 
 A  completely  unverified  story....  all  this  was  part  of  the  scam  to  create  a  ruckus  and  market  the  fish.  The  flower  horns  were  so  much  in  demand  in  Singapore,  Malaysia  and  Indonesia  that  there  was  very  little  left  for  the  other  countries.  
 
 I  have  spoken  to  taxi  drivers  in  Singapore  keeping  20  flower  horns  in    tanks  waiting  for  the  magic  number  to  materialise.  Now  when  there  is  no  demand  there  you  find  the  fish  moving  on  to  India  and  the  Phillipines.
 Two  years  ago  Flower  horns  made  their  debut  in  India  when  they  were  all  but  thrown  out  of  the  market  in  the  far  east.
 
 Fortunately  we  have  a  bit  more  awareness  in  India  about  the  hobby  than  the  Phillipines  and  they  have  not  taken  a  foot  hold.
 
 Now  when  people  have  gotten  wiser  to  the  Edit...  puppy  like  qualities  and  boxer  like  behaviour  are  being  touted  to  sell  the  remaining  stock.  I  have  seen  flower  horns  languishing  in  tank  after  tank  in  Thailand  and  Singapore  and  shoppers  walk  past  them  "  flower  horns  bah!!,  big  Edit  fish".  The  only  ones  who  have  benefited  are  the  breeders  and  perpetuators  of  this  scam,  not  the  retailers  not  the  buyers  and  certainly  not  the  fish.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
madhu_ulysses
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2450
Location: Salem, TN

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:44 am Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
sicklidonmind  wrote:                
...as  long  as  flowerhorns  are  kept  responsibly  and  not  released  in  lakes  and  rivers  or  other  water  bodies  it  really  shouldnt  be  a  problem.
                 

 Even  when  not  released  they  are  a  problem.    For  eg  in  salem  9  out  of  10  cichlids  sold  are  FHs  and  people  who  cannot  afford  in  thousands  still  want  FHs  so  wht  an  LFS  owner  did  was  crossed  a  FH  with  a  texas  cichlid  and  he  got  some  nasty  FH  like  fish  with  markings  and  a  little  bit  of  red  below  its  gills  and  sold  it  for  100-500  bucks  WRT  the  colour.    Some  of  them  off-springs  were  texas  and  he  sold  it  as  texas.    If  a  serious  hobbyist  buys  it  for  a  texas,  what  painfully  happens  is  the  poor  hobbyist  would  be  thinking  its  a  texas  which  is  really  not  and  if  he  tends  to  breed  it  he'd  possibly  get  some  Edit  offsprings.    Isn't  it  like  fooling  a  serious  hobbyists'  spirits?    Also  if  FHs  would  have  flooded  the  marked  in  the  same  pace  as  before  then  in  many  countries  (mostly  asian),  true  blooded  species  would  be  really  rare.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

   If  anyone  were  to  say  that  because  flowerhorns  are  hybrids  one  shldnt  keep  em  then  to  them  id  say  dont  keep  what  are  known  as  red  devils  as  there  are  really  no  true  labiatus  or  citrinellus  in  the  hobby                  

 Agreed!  but  a  little  indepth  understanding  would  show  the  difference  between  the  hybridized  'Red-Devils'  and  Flower  Horns.    In  lake  nicaragua  there  are  a  dozen  species  of  the  amphilophus  genera  that  are  VERY  CLOSELY  RELATED  which  includes  A.citrinellum,    A.labiatum  and  A.zaliosus.    Both  midas  and  devil  evolved  from  a  single  ancestor  and  devils  got  a  slight  advantage  of  pointed  mouths  to  suck  in  crustacenas  and  other  possible  food  from  rocks  and  clevages  which  midas  dont  have  and  people  weren't  aware  that  both  were  different  species  when  it  was  actually  hybridized.    But  on  the  other  hand  what  is  the  relation  between  a  C.festae  and  an  A.trimaculatum  and  four  other  species  that  were  involved  in  creating  FHs.    Even  though  they  both  can  be  called  hybrids,  there's  a  huge  difference  between  the  purpose  and  the  scientific  ground  on  which  they  were  hybridized.    This  is  why  many  serious  hobbyists  are  against  FHs  and  not  against  Red  Devils.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Vijayblr
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 216


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

 Flower  Horns  were  my  passion.  i  had  a  few  fully  grown  ones.  But  when  i  felt  that  there  is  much  more  the  hobby  has  to  offer  than  these  man  made  puppets  I  gave  them  all.
 I  have  used  the  word  puppets  beacuse  these  are  the  only  fish  that  are  bred  giving  importance  to  the  requirement  and  keeping  in  mind  a  lot  of  factors  like-  Hood,  Colors,  Pearls,  Aggression.
 I  agree  no  other  fish  has  so  much  of  varities  but.......  Idea  
 have  a  chat  with  a  hobyyist  who  spends  a  minimum  of  15hrs  a  day  365  days  a  year  and  80%  of  his  pay.  You  will  know  the  difference  in  having  a  quality  true  blood  cichlid  and  an  Hybrid.
 Madhu  I  had  spent  quality  time  with  you  and  it  was  an  eye  opener  for  me.
 I  have  already  said  NO  to  Hybrids.  Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sicklidonmind
IAH New Member
IAH New Member



Joined: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 13


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject:  Reply with quote

                                                   
madhu_ulysses  wrote:                
                                                 
sicklidonmind  wrote:                
...as  long  as  flowerhorns  are  kept  responsibly  and  not  released  in  lakes  and  rivers  or  other  water  bodies  it  really  shouldnt  be  a  problem.
                 

 Even  when  not  released  they  are  a  problem.    For  eg  in  salem  9  out  of  10  cichlids  sold  are  FHs  and  people  who  cannot  afford  in  thousands  still  want  FHs  so  wht  an  LFS  owner  did  was  crossed  a  FH  with  a  texas  cichlid  and  he  got  some  nasty  FH  like  fish  with  markings  and  a  little  bit  of  red  below  its  gills  and  sold  it  for  100-500  bucks  WRT  the  colour.    Some  of  them  off-springs  were  texas  and  he  sold  it  as  texas.    If  a  serious  hobbyist  buys  it  for  a  texas,  what  painfully  happens  is  the  poor  hobbyist  would  be  thinking  its  a  texas  which  is  really  not  and  if  he  tends  to  breed  it  he'd  possibly  get  some  Edit  offsprings.    Isn't  it  like  fooling  a  serious  hobbyists'  spirits?    Also  if  FHs  would  have  flooded  the  marked  in  the  same  pace  as  before  then  in  many  countries  (mostly  asian),  true  blooded  species  would  be  really  rare.
 
 OK  point  taken  madhu  but  festae  have  been  classified  as  amphilophus  genus  so  have  been  trimac's  agreed  that  festae  are  south  american  while  trimac's  and  the  red  devil  complex  fish  like  zaliosus  citinellus  and  labiatus  are  CA.  You  must  understand  that  i  dont  have  a  problem  with  people  not  wanting  to  keep  flowerhorns  but  i  feel  that  everyone  should  be  to  himself.  As  regards  to  feng  shi  and  all  that  bull  shit  regd  FH  i  never  believed  that  shit  anyways.  BTW  the  Asian  Arowana  craze  began  on  the  same  note.  As  regards  to  the  original  species  becoming  extremely  rare  in  the  hobby,  like  trimacs  or  for  that  matter  texas  which  i  personally  beleieve  can  be  easily  distinguished  if  a  lil  study  is  done  before  diving  in  the  deep  end  of  fish  keeping  by  trying  to  buy  them  then  it  shldnt  be  a  problem.  Madhu  id  like  a  honest  ans  to  this  question  ok....How  many  people  you  know  will  go  out  and  buy  a  texas  as  their  first  fish.
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

   If  anyone  were  to  say  that  because  flowerhorns  are  hybrids  one  shldnt  keep  em  then  to  them  id  say  dont  keep  what  are  known  as  red  devils  as  there  are  really  no  true  labiatus  or  citrinellus  in  the  hobby                  

 Agreed!  but  a  little  indepth  understanding  would  show  the  difference  between  the  hybridized  'Red-Devils'  and  Flower  Horns.    In  lake  nicaragua  there  are  a  dozen  species  of  the  amphilophus  genera  that  are  VERY  CLOSELY  RELATED  which  includes  A.citrinellum,    A.labiatum  and  A.zaliosus.    Both  midas  and  devil  evolved  from  a  single  ancestor  and  devils  got  a  slight  advantage  of  pointed  mouths  to  suck  in  crustacenas  and  other  possible  food  from  rocks  and  clevages  which  midas  dont  have  and  people  weren't  aware  that  both  were  different  species  when  it  was  actually  hybridized.    But  on  the  other  hand  what  is  the  relation  between  a  C.festae  and  an  A.trimaculatum  and  four  other  species  that  were  involved  in  creating  FHs.    Even  though  they  both  can  be  called  hybrids,  there's  a  huge  difference  between  the  purpose  and  the  scientific  ground  on  which  they  were  hybridized.    This  is  why  many  serious  hobbyists  are  against  FHs  and  not  against  Red  Devils.                
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic  Reply to topic   printer-friendly view http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ Forum Index ->  Cichlids All times are UTC + 5.5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum




Powered By: phpBB © 2001 - 2006 phpBB Group
Nuke-Evo Conversion By: Evo-Themez | iCGstation v1.0 Template By Ray


[News Feed] [Forums Feed] [Downloads Feed] [Web Links Feed] [Validate robots.txt]


Forum Modification Pack by Revolution-Mods.

PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2006 by Francisco Burzi.
All logos, trademarks and posts in this site are property of their respective owners, all the rest © 2006 by the site owner.
Powered by Nuke-Evolution
[ Page Generation: 6048 Seconds | Memory Usage: 3.28 MB | DB Queries: 123 ]

Do Not Click