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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Dead rock to LR
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Dead rock to LR
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nature_lover
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 I  was  just  looking  at  some  of  the  discussions  earlier  on  IAH.  Is  it  possible  to  give  a  timeframe  to  convert  Dead  Rock  to  LR  with  just  a  few  rocks  of  LR  for  seeding?  If  this  is  going  to  be  a  small  time  frame  (about  4-6  months),  I  wouldn't  mind  going  in  for  more  Dead  Rock  and  very  little  LR  (which  I  will  probably  snitch  from  friends,  be  warned  ROFL)  instead  of  ripping  it  off  from  nature.
 
 Experts,  please  advice.
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Tried  it  before.  Gave  up  after  about  12  months.   
 
 Better  dump  the  dead  ones  in  the  sea  and  use  them  later.
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nature_lover
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Ok,  Shankar.  Will  take  your  word  for  it.
 
 Will  use  the  dead  rock  as  the  base  anyway.  Too  far  to  the  sea  from  here   Chuckle
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suneeshkachroo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 there  is  one  more  option   to  Go  for  MMLR  (man  Made  Live  rock  )  i  have  done  it  sucessfully  ...  and  have  nice  coraline  Algae  on  all  my  MMLR  ...
 
 to  fasten  the  cycle  of  turnin  a  dead  rock  to  MMLR  the  quantity  and  the   quality   of  LR  you  are  using  to  seed  the  tank  is  very  important  appart  from  water  parameters  ....  google  it  and  you  will  find  some  easy  way  of  it  ..
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pironya
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 As  long  as  the  dead  rock  you  are  referring  to  is  porous  with  lots  of  surface  area  for  bacterial  colonisation,  using  it  instead  of  live  rock  wouldnt  be  a  problem.
 
 Algae  and  diatoms  wil  be  the  first  to  cover  your  dead  rock,  then  maybe  some  featherdusters.  If  conditions  are  right,  coralline  will  start  geting  a  foothold.  Some  kinds  of  colonial  worms,  boring  worms,  sponges  etc  would  also  move  to  the  dead  rock  in  course  of  time.  Though  it  might  take  longer  for  the  dead  rock  to  have  the  same  diversity  as  the  live  rock,  it  will  serve  the  function  of  biological  filtration  easily  enough.  Be  sure  to  give  the  right  water  conditions  and  the  process  of  colonisation  will  be  quicker.  
 
 However,  using  a  very  small  quantity  of  LR  with  large  quantities  of  DR  will  make  the  process  slower  -  essentially  your  cycling  period  will  be  more.  Adding  a  source  of  ammonia  during  the  cycle  might  be  a  good  idea  here  as  there  is  not  going  to  be  any  die  off  from  the  rock  to  start  the  cycle.
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suneeshkachroo
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 well  i  am  not  much  into  the  thing  of  how  and  who  .....????
 On  july'08  i  introduced   my  MMLR  with  my  LR  so  it  was  followed  by  Diatom  algae  which  was  a  good  sign  ...  i  had  20kg  of  LR  and  40KG  of  MMLR...
 was  dosing  Calcium  ,Iodine,  Magnesium  and  regular  water  change  (2-3  week)....
 Thins  started  happening  when  i  added  Actinic  lighting  which  gave  a  boost  to  coraline  on  LR  and  by  Dec'08  i  had  small  patches  of  coraline  on  my  MMLR  ..
 
 i  had  some  kind  of  white  slime  thin  at  the  bottem  of  the  LR  which  is  now  on  a  MMLR  as  well  dont  know  what  it  is  but  its  not  lookin  good  ....
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nash81
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Hey  Suraj,
 
 It  all  depends  on  how  you  define  the  dead  rock  becoming  live.  If  you  are  talking  about  biological  colonization  of  bacteria,  then  that  timeframe  should  be  the  same  as  tank  cycling.
 
 If  you  are  talking  abt  the  criters  ,  then  that  would  really  depend  on  the  type  of  rock,  the  amount  of  LR  used  for  seeding.  The  kind  of  criters  present  in  your  seed  rock,  etc.  So  i  doubt  anyone  can  attach  any  time  frame.
 
 If  you  have  calcium  based  rock,  then  coraline  would  grow  quickly  if  you  have  the  right  kind  of  water  parameters,  lighting  and  there  is  enough  of  it  on  the  seed  rock.
 
 So  if  the  intention  of  the  question  was  when  would  coraline  spread  on  the  rock,  I  would  say  8-10months  is  when  you  would  see  some  visible  indication,  subject  to  the  kind  of  rock  and  other  parameters.
 
 I  am  personally  running  an  experimental  of  similar  sorts.  Currently  its  about  3  months  into  the  tank  setup.  The  dead  rock  is  completely  covered  with  Diatoms,  I  have  seen  signs  of  some  worms  and  some  macro  algae  as  well.
 
 So  if  you  call  that  live,  its  live  in  3  months..  hehe  ..for  me  its  still  dead  and  always  will  be  dead.  Cause  everything  said  and  done,  it  can  no  way  become  comparable  to  live  rock.  May  be  if  it  stays  a  few  decades  it  may.  But  not  certain  even  then.  
 
 Cheers
 Nirav
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 as  nash  said  dead  rocks  will  become  live  rocks  only  with  the  coralline  algae.  And  it  also  depends  whether  the  Coraline  in  the  tank  is  well  set.
 
 For  example,  when  the  tank  is  well  set,  and  then  you  introduce  new  dead  rocks  i  have  seen  Coraline  start  to  spread  in  it  in  about  a  month  itself.  But  when  you  are  taking  a  new  setting,  with  DR  base  and  LR  as  the  seeds,  you  will  encounter  Diatoms  and  all  the  factors,  then  the  tank  has  to  set,  by  that  time  there  will  be  enough  dust  on  the  DR  base  and  if  you  dont  dust  it  there  wont  be  growth  of  Coraline  on  those  rocks..  so  many  many  factors  as  to  where  you  keep  them,  whether  you  dust  them  off  also  matters.  But  i  have  not  seen  DR  being  converted  with  LR  successfully.  But  i  have  seen  man  made  rocks,  using  arogonite-concrete  combo  or  using  polyurethane  foam.
 
 So  using  Dead  Rocks,  in  my  opinion  is  going  to  be  waste  of  energy  and  resources.  but  may  be  if  you  are  willing  to  wait  about  an  year  or  more   then  it  might  be  a  better  option  under  the  conditions,  your  parameters  and  dusting  is  done  on  a  regular  basis.  
 
 another  option  other  than  dusting  the  rocks,  it  to  have  major  flow  in  the  lower  areas  so  that  there  is  no  settlement,  for  that  you  need  a  bear  bottom  tank  also.
 
 Pk
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AMITNOIDA
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Hi  Pk,
 
 What's  the  correct  method  of  dusting  the  LR?  I  generally  do  it  by  rubbing  my  figers  on  the  LR  keeping  them  in  place  during  Water  change.  Is  it  ok?
 
 Cheers
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nature_lover
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Hai  Nirav,  PK,
 
 Thank  you  for  the  inputs.
 
 I  will  go  ahead  with  more  LR  and  some  DR  as  the  base.  Will  wait  a  month  more  before  kickstarting  the  project.  More  inputs  required  on  skimmers  which  I  will  start  as  a  separate  topic.
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rahulk
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 I  agree  with  Arvind,Nirav  &  PK.   
 When  you  get  LR  ...  get  the  most  porous  ones..  You  can  make  out  by  the  size  to  weight  ratio.
 
 @Amit
 
 I  just  take  a  small  power  head  and  blast  the  rocks  once  in  3  mts
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

                                                   
Perikaruppan  wrote  (View  Post):                
as  nash  said  dead  rocks  will  become  live  rocks  only  with  the  coralline  algae.  
 Pk                

 
 Did  they  change  the  definition  of  live  rock  recently?  Live  rock  refers  to  calcareous  material  that  is  colonised  by  a  variety  of  life  forms.  Coralline  algae  are  not  a  prerequisite  for  classification  as  live  rock,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge.  The  organisms  that  perform  the  primary  function  we  use  live  rock  for  are  not  even  visible  to  the  human  eye.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Ditto  with  retro,  
 
 Two  rahul's  in  this  thread   Wink  
 
 Coralline  algae  will  grow  on  glass,  plastics,  every  where.  That  alone  don't  turn  them  into  live  rock  !
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rahulk
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Definition  of  LR  vary  around  here.
 According  to  me  base  rock   can  turn  into  LR  in  the  cycling  period.  Another  aspect  is  the  for  all  the  worms,feather  duster,  pods  and  other  critters  to  make  it  home  and  increase  it  efficiency.
 
 It  will  take  around  2  years  for  the  base  rock  to  become  as  efficient  as  LR  taken  from  the  ocean.  One  good  indicator  is  coralline  cover  and  boring  organisms.
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joyban
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Dead rock to LR Reply with quote

 Here  is  a  link  to  Cultured  Live  Rocks  :-
 
 http://www.pacificaquafarms.com/cultured.htm
 
 http://www.pacificaquafarms.com/premium.htm
 
 
 Live  Rock  As  a  Biological  Filter  :-  http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/feature/index.php
 
 Regards
 
 Sujoy
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