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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby.
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How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby.
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Chinoy
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Ive  started  getting  some  lectures  about  why  Fish  keeping  as  a  hobby  is  baned  in  most  developed  countries.
 
 And  how  it  should  be  baned  in  India.
 
 While  I  have  made  up  my  mind  to  stick  it  out  in  this  hobby.  
 One  has  to  hear  out  their  points  also.
 
 For  example  in  our  flat.  We  are  buying  water  on  almost  a  daily  basis.  
 Its  Rs  500  per  tanker  and  its  split  up  between  the  flats.  One  advantage  is  that  we  own  more  than  half  the  building  so  legally  they  cant  do  much  other  than  bitch  and  moan.  And  my  point  is  the  next  door  guy  with  is  5  kids  and  extended  familly  uses  more  water  taking  a  bath  than  our  familly  and  the  fish  consume.
 
 But  when  I  hear  stories  about  Discus  fish  that  need  80-90%  water  change  everyday.  Are  they  kidding  or  serious.
 The  complete  country  is  reeling  under  serious  water  shortage.  How  can  you  justify  this.  What  happens  to  the  water  once  you  change  it  ?
 
 
 My  brother  in  Bombay  would  carry  buckets  up  to  his  flat  every  day.
 In  Bangalore  we  are  paying  for  tankers.  Where  do  you  draw  the  line.  And  how  do  you  justify  or  deal  with  such  people.
 Who  dont  want  to  see  fish  tanks  in  the  building.
 Is  it  just  me  or  do  others  also  face  such  issues  ?
 
 Worst  case  I  am  thinking  will  pay  for  one  tanker  my  self  and  use  it  to  fill  the  tanks  to  start  with.
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Moved  this  thread  to  'Chit  Chat'.
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 I  think  we  consume  less  water  in  our  fish-keeping  hobby  than  what  we  consume  for  our  regular  activities.  A  tap  which  is  not  closed  properly  can  waste  more  whatever  than  what  you  change  in  your  tanks  on  a  weekly  basis.
 
 If  you  are  having  trouble  with  the  moaning  from  your  neighbours,  buy  a  tanker  of  water  and  use  it  for  your  fish.  You  can  then  choose  the  kind  of  action  you  want  on  your  neighbours  by  asking  a  few  of  them  to  leave  because  they  are  now  consuming  more  than  what  you  need.
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Preeths
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Ask  them  to  Go  fish  ROFL
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Water  is  one  aspect,  but  there  are  some  who  accuse  of  imprisoning  the  fish  in  a  glass  cube.
 
 What  should  be  our  arguments  against  them?
 
 I  usually  tell  them:
 
 1)  That  a  responsible  hobbyist  would  provide  enough  space/water  quality  for  a  fish,  which  would  provide  equal  or  maybe  more  comfort  than  the  fish  would  have  in  the  wild.
 2)  The  fish  is  safe  from  predators.
 3)  It  is  provided  good  food  on  a  regular  basis.
 4)  Most  of  the  fish  are  not  wid  caught,  but  bred  for  the  hobby,  and  have  adapted  to  this  style  of  life.  They  wouldnt  be  able  to  live  in  the  wild.
 
 But  yet,  they  arent  convinced.  They  tell  me  that  freedom  weighs  more  than  all  the  above  points  put  together.  I  know  that  one  who  doesnt  want  to  be  convinced  can  never  be.  Still,  any  points  to  add  that  can  be  used  in  the  defence  of  our  hobby?  (though  we  dont  need  to  defend  it  from  ppl  who  dont  understand)
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d_pratik22
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:24 am Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 About  the  water  issue  i  totally  agree  with  suraj..we  as  it  is  waste  such  a  huge  amount  of  water  everyday..that  too  unexpectedly..It  would  not  hurt,  if  we  could  be  a  little  more  careful,  and  use  the  same  amount  of  water  for  our  hobby..i  totally  agree  that  the  expiration  of  all  the  natural  resources  is  a  major  concern  in  our  country..but  that  does  not  mean,  that  we  stop  using  it..people  should  be  taught  how  to  use  in  efficiently..recycling  and  reusing  are  words  known  by  one  and  all,  yet  no  one  wants  to  make  an  effort  to  implement  it..
 it  is  true  that  most  people  make  80-90%  WC  for  discus  daily..but  that  is  not  NECESSARY..it  is  just  a  step  most  people  take  to  ensure  that  their  expensive,  rare  and  beautiful  fish  are  healthy  and  happy(a  point  that  may  be  used  to  prove  to  someone,  that  'captivity'  is  not  that  bad)..however,  lets  not  forget,  unless  someone  feeds  them  live  food  or  BHM  or  GHM  in  a  massive  amount,  the  water  does  not  get  unbearable  sooo  fast..It  can  still  be  used  for  other  purposes..my  mom  usually  uses  this  water  for  the  plants(i.e  if  it  is  not  very  bad)..
 As  for  the  people  who  like  to  debate  about  the  'freedom'  of  the  fish..i  think  we  should  give  them  a  tour  of  our  tanks..most  of  us  being  hobbyists,  have  tanks  made  exclusively  for  the  safety  and  well-being  of  our  fishes..and  not  really  concentrating  on  too  much  decoration..for  eg.  majority  of  the  discus  keepers(including  me)  have  BB  tanks,  and  we  dont  concentrate  much  on  landscaping..while  on  the  other  hand,  we  could  have  made  our  tanks  much  more  attractive,  we  make  sure,  the  tank  remains  a  happy  home  for  the  fish..we  nurture,  feed  and  take  care  of  them  like  our  friends..and  the  face  that  all  the  fishes  come  rushing  in  front  of  the  tank  to  greet  us  itself  shows  how  happy  they  are..maybe  even  feed  them  in  front  of  the  'accuser'  and  let  him  see  and  realise  himself,  that  this  type  of  caring  cannot  be  found  in  the  wild..where  they  may  be  killed  by  predators,  or  simply  become  uncomfortable  due  to  the  large  amount  of  toxic  dumped  into  the  water  these  days(just  a  vague  example)..
 sorry  for  the  loong  reply,  but  i'm  just  a  die-hard  fan  of  fishes..and  i  am  always  ready  to  defend  what  i  do..because  at  the  end  of  the  day,  we  all  know  that  we  are  doing  a  noble  thing   Smile
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Chinoy
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Well  right  after  I  made  this  post.  There  was  no  water  in  my  building.
 Some  MLA  went  to  the  tanker  place  and  beat  up  a  driver.
 So  all  the  drivers  went  on  strike.  And  we  where  stuck  without  water  or  tankers  for  close  to  2  days.
 
 With  the  water  position  being  what  it  is.  I  really  find  it  hard  to  justify  frequent  water  changes.
 One  of  my  club  members  wife  works  in  a  large  water  treatment  plant.  So  I  am  going  to  ask  her  to  help.
 We  talk  about  save  our  planet   but  everything  seems  to  go  out  the  window  when  it  comes  to  our  hobby.
 
 Im  a  two  stroke  junkie.  And  a  lot  of  people  said  they  should  be  banned.  But  we  came  up  with  a  product  which  cuts  smoke  and  emissions  to  the  point  where  a  two  stroke  now  makes  less  pollution  than  a  modern  4  stroke  with  a  cat  con.
 
 
 I  don't  buy  the  leaking  tap  bit  man.  you  can  run  a  leaking  tap  for  6  months  and  its  not  going  to  fill  a  6  ft  tank.
 
 Ok  instead  of  another  thread  how  about  this  topic.
 
 Dealing  with  injured  fish.
 The  other  day  while  doing  a  filter  clean.  One  Juvi  jumped  from  the  tank  right  over  the  wall  and  fell  4  stories  to  the  floor.
 I  rushed  down  and  picked  him  up.  
 Put  him  in  the  tank.  Even  hand  feed  him.  Today  he  seems  to  be  up  and  about.  Playing  with  the  other  fish.  Eating  and  fighting  for  food  with  the  others.  
 
 Only  his  skin  is   slightly  darker.  And  his  movement  is  like  somebody  who  has  hurt  their  back.
 
 Wife  says  kill  it  and  put  it  out  of  its  suffering.
 My  take  it  looks  fine  to  me.  SO  he  has  a  limp.  But  he  is  playing  /  moving  up  and  down  the  tank.  And  eating  food  fine.
 
 Whats  the  right  thing  to  do  in  such  cases  ?
 Im  tempted  to  offer  up  my  tank  for  fish  nobody  wants  to  keep  i.e.  injured  fish,  fish  that  trouble  other  fish  etc.
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d_pratik22
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:01 am Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 that  is  a  judgement  call  really..some  would  consider  'putting  the  fish  out  of  his  suffering'..personally  i  would  not..mercy  killings  are  not  allowed  for  humans,  so  i  would  not  use  it  on  my  fish  either..It  happened  with  my  black  molly  also  once  long  back..the  bowl  i  was  temporarily  keeping  him  in,  suddenly  seperated  from  its  base  and  broke..i  put  them  into  a  bucket  and  later  shifted  them  into  the  tank..he  was  in  the  worst  shape  i  have  ever  seen  a  fish  in..i  did  a  lot  to  try  to  make  him  fine..and  after  a  few  weeks  he  was  back  to  normal..
 they  say  fishes  teach  you  a  lot..well  this  incident  surely  taught  me  never  to  give  up  !!   Smile  
 frankly  speaking  i'd  never  'mercy  kill'  my  fish..but  it  differs  from  people  to  people..
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:26 am Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 As  for  water  -  yes  don't  waste  it  -  I  don't.  All  water  used  ultimately  goes  to  irrigate  my  kitchen  garden  and  then  some  more.
 
 As  for  keeping  fishes  captive  -  ask  the  objector  to  take  the  opinion  of  the  fish  for  if  its  reaction  is  similar  to  yours  about  this  interfering  person  the  later  should  be  liable  to  some  punishment.
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Well  if  you  not  the  agressive  kind  who  like  to  argue  then  just  smile  and  change  the  topic  after  sometime!(works  for  me  in  many  cases  sply  with  neighbours)  
 
 My  point  is!  people  will  have  different  opinion  and  point  of  view!  If  you  not  gonna  change  your  point  of  view  then  dont  try  to  change  theirs!
 
 So  if  someday  you  think  that  you  dont  want  to  continue  this  hobby  then  ensure  that  the  guy  who  convinced  you  to  do  so  is  hooked  Thumb Up  
 
 for  argument  sake!  
 1.  Many  ppl  store  water,  use  less  then  half  of  it  and  then  throw  it  away  the  next  day  when  they  get  fresh  water
 2.  Pipe  line  leaks  waste  more  water  then  all  the  aquariums  in  the  city  can  use
 3.  Use  water  to  give  a  living  being  a  better  shelter  will  increase  my  blessing  counter!  Chuckle  
 
 Im  against  mercy  killing  more  so  in  the  case  of  fish!  cause  there  is  no  way  you  can  tell  if  it  is  recovering  or  his  suffering  has  increased  internally!  always  hope  for  the  best!
 
 
 Hope  you  the  strike's  off  by  now  and  you've  got  plenty  of  water  Smile
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Ra
IAH New Member
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Joined: Jul 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Hey  Chinoy,
 
 Never  mind  the  pestering  neigbours.  Dont  let  go  of  a  hobby  just  cause  you  feel  guilty  about  the  water  situation.  Try  and  come  up  with  a  better  way  of  disposing  the  water  -  kitchen  garden,  lawn  in  your  building,  trees  and  shrubs  right  across  the  road...just  to  name  a  few.  Come  up  with  new  ideas...am  sure  both  your  neighbours  and  your  conscience  will  feel  glad  about  it.
 
 Regarding  mercy  killing  -  I  agree  with  Sameer,  I  guess  there  is  no  way  to  conclude  whether  the  fish  is  going  to  recover  or  not  unless  you  either  see  the  fish  roaming  freely  or  is  actually  dead.
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kulsdood
Regular Poster on IAH
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Joined: Dec 15, 2008
Posts: 683
Location: Mumbai,

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 There  are  lot  of  other  problems  to  handle  than  worrying  about  fish  or  the  water  changes...  
 
 rapes,  job  losses,  attack  on  pubs,  terrorists,  politicians,  pollution  --  what  not..  list  could  go  on...  In  my  opinion  there  are  only  handful  of  people  in  India  who  actually  keep  fish  tanks...  Any  idea  how  much?  I  dont  think  more  than  500,000  in  all  India  put  together  who  seriously  keep  fishes  like  we  do  and  so  many  less  who  keep  discus  which  needs  90-100%  WC...  No  need  to  worry  on  this  topic...
 
 Do  you  know  if  we  stop  consuming  bottled  water  how  much  we  can  help?...  The  amount  of  plastic  which  is  used  to  make  this  is  insane,  top  it  with  the  amount  of  oil  used  to  produce  that..  Stopping  bottled  water  can  fuel  100,000  cars  for  a  year...  
 
 There  are  smarter  ways  to  handle  this  --  use  it  for  your  garden  or  if  you  dont  have  a  garden..  use  it  to  clean  your  bathroom..  reuse  it
 Have  a  better  filter..  less  bioload...  and  yes  why  not  planted  tanks...  its  simply  a  garden  of  water..  less  water  change..  we  can  improvise  a  lot  of  things..
 
 you  can  go  on  and  on.....  excuse  me  for  the  long  post..  I  couldnt  stop  ..
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madhu_ulysses
Committed Member of IAH
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Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 2450
Location: Salem, TN

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Neighbours/Save  the  planet/  Conservation/Mercy  killing!     Jester  
 Chinoy,  it  would  have  better  fit  the  scope  of  the  forum  if  you  had  asked,  I  want  a  fish  which  can  do  well  with  very  spare  water  changes  or  if  you  would  have  put,  my  fish  fell  from  4th  floor,  how  could  i  save/treat  it.
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trevor
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Joined: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 4290
Location: Bangalore

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

 Quite  right.  Depends  on  how  you  project  it.
 
 One  day  when  I  had  twenty  two  tanks  my  building  landlord  himself  approached  me  and  said  there  was  no  need  to  pay  the  water  bill.  
 As  an  ideal  tenant  I  had  earlier  told  his  wife  in  confidence  that  I  shower  everyday  in  the  club  after  a  swim.  
 Another  top  secret  I  told  her  was  that  if  I  change  water  in  the  fish  tanks  the  fish  would  die  due  to  the  chlorine  etc.  I  only  use  imported  filters  to  keep  the  same  water  sparkling  clean.
 
 Needless  to  say  the  poor  guy  was  blasted  by  his  better  and  stronger  half  for  daring  to  charge  me  the  poor  single  guy  any  water  bill.  He  just  refused  to  take  any  charge  for  the  water.
 
 I  ┬ájust  hope  and  pray  the  landlord  does  not  become  a  member  of  IAH  or  gets  into  the  hobby.
 Members  are  requested  not  to  copy  or  try  what  I  did.
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Yogesh
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: How do you deal with the anti fish keeping lobby. Reply with quote

                                                   
trevor  wrote  (View  Post):                
Quite  right.  Depends  on  how  you  project  it.
 
 One  day  when  I  had  twenty  two  tanks  my  building  landlord  himself  approached  me  and  said  there  was  no  need  to  pay  the  water  bill.  
 As  an  ideal  tenant  I  had  earlier  told  his  wife  in  confidence  that  I  shower  everyday  in  the  club  after  a  swim.  
 Another  top  secret  I  told  her  was  that  if  I  change  water  in  the  fish  tanks  the  fish  would  die  due  to  the  chlorine  etc.  I  only  use  imported  filters  to  keep  the  same  water  sparkling  clean.
 
 Needless  to  say  the  poor  guy  was  blasted  by  his  better  and  stronger  half  for  daring  to  charge  me  the  poor  single  guy  any  water  bill.  He  just  refused  to  take  any  charge  for  the  water.
 
 I  ┬ájust  hope  and  pray  the  landlord  does  not  become  a  member  of  IAH  or  gets  into  the  hobby.
 Members  are  requested  not  to  copy  or  try  what  I  did.                

 Haha,  Too  Good  Sir.  Chuckle
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