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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Is it worth keeping a sick fish??
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Is it worth keeping a sick fish??

 
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djay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 Yesterday,  I  lost  two  fishes  Sad  The  worst  part  is  one  of  the  fish  had  struggled  more  or  less  the  entire  day.  
 
 Since  I  suspected,  it  may  be  ammonia  issue  (new  tank  syndrome),  I  moved  one  fish  into  new  water  in  a  bucket.  It  struggled  the  whole  day  there  and  died.  I  just  felt  helpless  not  able  to  help  him  much.  I  know  I  didnt  listen  to  some  of  the  advices  given  here  on  not  stocking  the  tank  till  it  matures  :(
 
 Now  my  question  is,  is  it  worth  keeping  the  fish  after  it  more  or  less  settles  at  bottom  gaspin  for  breath.  Did  anyone  see  them  live  coming  back  from  that  stage?
 
 And  is  a  bucket  of  water  fine  for  a  fish  less  than  3".  Once  I  move  a  sick  fish  into  a  bucket,  till  now  I  never  got  them  back  (again  my  experience  is  pretty  limited  here)
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sarge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 How  new  is  your  tank?
 
 Consider  getting  a  smaller  quarantine  tank  if  you  wish  to  treat  sick  fishes.  Keeping  them  in  a  bucket  will  not  help  get  them  back.
 
 Do  read  up  other  threads  on  the  forum  on  how  some  of  the  experts  treat  sick  fishes.
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djay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 It  is  3  weeks  old  6ft  marine  tank.  Treated  with  bacterial  solution  the  first  week.  Added  live  rock  10kgs  during  the  end  of  first  week.  Added  two  sebae  clowns  which  were  got  directly  from  Chennai.  They  recovered  nicely  in  a  day.  Exactly  at  the  end  of  the  week,  they  died.  They  didnt  eat  the  day  before  and  were  a  bit  dull.
 
 I  have  fed  them  marine  flakes  and  used  normal  red  balls  intermittently.
 
 Salinity  and  ph  are  good.  Dont  have  the  test  kit  yet  for  ammonia,  nitrite  and  nitrate  and  should  be  getting  them  in  a  while
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djay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 Except  that  the  Quarantine  tank,  is  a  bucket.  How  is  it  different  from  having  a  quarantine  tank?
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Zakk
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 3  week  Marine?  am  no  expert  on  this  but  dont  Saltwater  tanks  take  upto  6  months  to  cycle  and  stabilize?
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simanta
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

                                                   
djay  wrote  (View  Post):                

 Now  my  question  is,  is  it  worth  keeping  the  fish  after  it  more  or  less  settles  at  bottom  gaspin  for  breath.  Did  anyone  see  them  live  coming  back  from  that  stage?                

 
 Sorry  to  hear  about  the  loss.  Well  I  don't  have  any  experience  in  keeping  marine  stock,  but  my  opinion  to  your  query-
 
 The  joy  of  keeping  fishes  in  a  small  glass  tank  compared  to  their  natural  habitat  is  in  replicating  as  much  as  possible  their  natural  surroundings  where  the  fishes  main  strategy  of  staying  alive  is  survival  of  the  fittest.  They  usually  don't  die  of  ammonia  or  nitrite  attacks  there.  So,  keeping  a  fish  in  an  aquarium  is  worth  every  effort  whether  they  are  healthy  or  sick  because  we  play  their  rearing  roles.  If  they  are  sick  then  its  up  to  us  bringing  them  back  to  health  because  they  were  sick  due  to  our  negligence.  The  fish  keeping  hobby  is  not  about  dumping  fish  in  a  glass  tank  but  the  joy  is  in  rearing  them  from  juveniles  or  fry  till  old  age  and  better  when  the  life  cycle  repeats.
 
 Your  question  "Is  it  worth  keeping  a  sick  fish??",  I  think  should  have  been  "how  to  nurse  a  sick  fish  to  a  healthy  one?"
 
 regards
 Simanta.
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sarge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 Quarantine  tanks  are  usually  smaller  capacity  tanks  ..  say  around  10  to  15  gallons  with  a  non  activated  carbon  filter  (  since  carbon  will  remove  any  medication  you  use  for  the  fish  ).  Some  even  have  heaters  to  raise  the  temperature  for  about  1~2  degC.  This  is  supposed  to  help  the  fish  recover  but  I  have  no  detailed  info  on  this.
 
 Keeping  the  fish  in  a  bucket  will  not  help  in  any  way  as  you  are  just  isolating  them.
 
 Also  as  Zakk  mentioned  you  might  have  introduced  the  fish  too  early.
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Samad_Cero
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 umm...  one  thing  i  have  noticed....  most  people  who  isolate  their  weak  or  sick  fish...
 they  put  them  in  small  tank  n  think  that  a  bubbler(i  mean  airpump)  at  full  speed  is  best!....  u  should  keep  in  mind  that  a  sick  fish  should  get  max  rest....when  your  airpump  is  running  on  full  or  at  high  speed...  there  will  be  continuous  current.....  n  the  fish  wont  be  at  rest....  second  thing....  the  water  level  should  be  max  to  twice  the  height  of  the  fish....  because  at  the  end  the  fish  prefers  gulping  bouts  of  air  from  the  surface.......  n  most  of  them  r  so  damn  weak  that  they  are  never  able  to  reach  the  surface  because  of  the  excess  height!.....
 N  yeah....  i  would  say....  try  your  hands  with  basic  medicines  like  flavine.....  it  soothes  the  ailing  fish.....
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abhis9
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 I  am  not  expert  in  marine.  But  from  my  past  exp.  I  know  very  little  of  marine.
 
 >  Need  minimum  6  month  to  mature  the  tank  before  keep  any  fish  (Completely  agree  with  Zakk)
 
 >  More  Volume  of  water  more  stable  tank   etc.  etc.
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djay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 Apologies  Simantha  for  not  framing  my  question  correctly.  I  did  not  mean  the  fish  as  a  toy  which  can  be  thrown  out  when  it  is  sick.  ┬áMy  question  more  was  when  a  sick  fish  has  gone  down  (  I  mean  just  lying  on  the  floor),  what  are  it's  chances  of  recovery.  I  spent  the  whole  day  yesterday  more  or  less  watching  and  trying  to  help  as  much  as  I  can.  I  could  see  the  suffering  of  it  thru  the  day.  Is  it  worth  it,  for  the  fish  to  go  thru  that  pain?
 
 With  the  limited  knowledge  of  nursing  back  a  sick  fish,  what  are  its  chances  of  survival.
 
 Typically,  the  way  I  nurse  back  a  fish  is  change  the  water/seperate  the  fish/add  methyl  blue  and  I  have  till  now  hardly  seen  a  fish  recoup  from  a  bad  state.  I  dont  know  where  I  am  wrong  though
 
 
 Samad,  
 
 For  the  lack  of  empty  aquariums,  I  have  used  a  bucket  which  typically  carries  around  7  gallons.  And  in  marine,  not  sure  why  they  suggest  not  using  air  pump  (too  much  dissolved  oxygen)
 
 Zakk/Abhi,
 
 Yes,  typically  it  is  suggested  6  weeks  for  cycling.  However,  there  are  bacterial  solutions  which  promise  to  mature  the  tank  in  a  week.  Now  that  is  what  I  tried.  And  I  have  added  2  fishes  (considering  the  size  of  the  tank)  to  complete  the  cycling.
 
 Obviously  it  didnt  work  :(
 
 Thanks
 Jay


Last edited by djay on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 To  answer  your  question,  you  should  do  everything  possible  to  keep  your  fish  alive.  This  includes  lot  of  research  before  placing  a  livestock  in  your  tank.  Let  your  tank  cycle  for  atleast  6  weeks  before  you  add  live  stock.  We  all  know  thats  the  hardest  part,  having  set  up  a  tank  and  seeing  it  fishless.  
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
Yes,  typically  it  is  suggested  6  weeks  for  cycling.  However,  there  are  bacterial  solutions  which  promise  to  mature  the  tank  in  a  week.  Now  that  is  what  I  tried.  And  I  have  added  2  fishes  (considering  the  size  of  the  tank)  to  complete  the  cycling.  
                 

 
 Don't  trust  everything  your  LFS  says  and  always  err  on  the  side  of  caution.  Get  you  a  30  g  qt,  trust  me  it  will  help  you  in   the  long  run.  In  marine  tank  you  should  add  your  livestock  slowly  so  that  the  bacterias  can  catch  up  with  the  increase  in  bio  load  and  buy  one  fish  at  a  time.  Bucket  cannont  take  the  place  of  a  QT.  
 This  is  what  I  do  before  I  add  new  fish  in  my  DT
 1.  Read  on  the  fish  I  want  and  make  sure  it  will  be  compatable  in  my  tank  and  tank  mates.
 2.  Start  looking  for  the  fish  at  the  lfs,  sometimes  the  LFS  will  order  the  fish  for  me  and  hold  it  for  couple  weeks.
 3.  Set  up  the  QT  and  place  a  sponge  which  has  already  been  coonized  with  bacteria.
 Make  sure  the  fish  is  eating  and  looks  good  in  the  LFS.
 4.  Bring  the  fish  and  qt  it  for  6  to  8  weeks  and  treat  it  for  any  diseases  in  the  qt.
 5.  Then  release  it  in  the  tank.
 
 What  are  the  fish  that  died?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 The  fishes  which  died  are  sebae  clownfish,  sighhh  very  pretty  fish.  The  next  one  will  be  a  sergeant  major.  I  will  let  another  2  weeks  pass  before  adding  it  and  I  am  hoping  this  will  be  hardy  enough  to  face  the  new  tank
 
 
 Typically,  the  marine  fishes  come  here  from  Chennai  or  Kolkatta.  The  lfs  guy  ordered  those  for  me  and  I  got  it  directly  from  the  railway  stn.  Since,  mine  was  a  new  tank  and  doesnt  have  any  fishes  in  there,  I  took  the  risk  of  directly  taking  the  delivery.  They  actually  recouped  well  from  the  journey  and  were  eating  well.
 
 
 Now,  I  know  bucket  doesn't  work,  I  will  think  of  alternatives.
 
 Regards
 Jay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth keeping a sick fish?? Reply with quote

 Jay,  
 
 Some  time  back,  I  had  4  clown  loaches,  in  a  tank  in  a  lower  rack.  because  of  the  low  light  in  that  area,  i  didnt  know  when  they  caught  ick.  When  i  found  out,  I  started  treating  them  with  a  heater.  Still  lost  2  of  them.  Then  started  treating  them  with  Mal  green  +  heater.  Still  after  a  battle,  lost  one.  The  last  one  was  completely  covered  in  white  spots,  and  i  almost  felt  like  giving  up  on  him.  But  miraculously,  he  recovered.  Today,  in  my  colony  of  10  Clown  loaches,  he  is  the  alpha  loach,  the  biggest  and  fattest.
 
 Mine  was  a  case  of  ick.  So  i  never  gave  up.  But  sometimes  sicknesses  like  dropsy  may  not  be  curable.  Your  decision  to  give  up  on  the  fish  or  not  should  depend  on  what  kind  of  symptoms  the  fish  is  showing.  Just  sitting  at  the  bottom  and  breathing  heavily  should  not  be  a  reason  to  directly  give  up  on  a  fish.  The  question  also  is  what  is  'giving  up  on  a  fish'?  Is  it  euthanasia,  stopping  treatment  or  giving  the  fish  away.  I  am  completely  against  stopping  treatment  and  giving  the  fish  away.  And  Euthanasia  is  a  topic  that  is  debated  by  hobbyists.  Some  say  it  should  not  be  used,  But  I  personally  feel,  sometimes  it  might  be  a  necessary  step,  only  when  you  are  sure  that  all  hope  is  lost.
 
 And  like  what  others  have  said,  have  some  patience  with  your  marine  tank.  I  set  up  mine  with  LR  &  LS  from  another  tank,  which  helped  me  skip  the  cycle.  But  i  still  have  left  the  tank  with  a  few  mollies  (added  after  3  weeks)  for  it  to  settle  down  properly  before  my  final  marine  fish  enter  the  tank.
 
 All  the  best  with  your  tank!
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