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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Lowering PH?
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Lowering PH?
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surya_niki
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:28 pm Post subject: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 Will  the  usage  of  this  DOaqua  B  Soft  bring  the  PH  down  to  4.5  -  5  if  required?  The  reason  for  this  question  is,  I  planning  to  keep  some  wild  fish  which  require  the  menitoned  PH.  If  yes,   then  this  could  be  used  instead  of  peat  moss  right.  
 
 I  understand  that  I  would  need  to  add  this  to  the  water  and  measure  the  desired  PH.  But  would  it  bring  the  PH  down  to  what  I  want?  
 
 Regards,  
 Surya
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nikhilsood1
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Surya  the  only  drawback  i  see  in  this  system  is  that  since  you  want  to  have  it  for  a  longer  period  of  time  it  will  not  be  feasible  monetarily.  Peat  once  added  will  last  6-8  months  whereas  you  will  need  to  keep  adding  Be  soft  as  and  when  you  do  a  water  change.  Which  for  the  fish  you  are  planning  will  be  monthly  or  bi  monthly.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Go  for  a  pH  buffer  like  pH  Down.  A  buffer  is  better.
 B  Soft  is  a  water  softener  and  not  a  buffer.
 
 Peat  is  the  best  option,  if  you  can  get  enough  of  it.
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 If  you  are  talking  about  something  less  than  5,  the  tricky  part  will  be,  to  hold  it  stable.   pH  gets  way  too  unstable  without  a  strong  buffer  below  5.   If  you  are  thinking  of  a  stable,  but  of  course  a  bit  costly  solution,  Distilled  water  is  the  best.   Distilled  water  has  a  stable  pH  of  4  and  you  can  add  5%  tap  water  to  it.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Madhu,  What  Buffers  distilled  water  to  a  STABLE  pH  of  4  ?
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 4  is  the  new  7.
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headbanger_jib
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 buffering  really  low  ph  to  almost  acidic  conditions  would  be  really  tough  even  with  peat,  and  filtration  has  to  be  like  crazy  even  if  u  achieve  that  ph.
 
 normal  biological  filtration  with  which  we  get  away  most  of  the  times  is  not  going  to  work  here.
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Shankar
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Back  in  the  wild,  its  probably  the  leaf  litter  that  keeps  the  pH  low.  Same  thing  can  be  done  here.  Correct  me  if  I  am  wrong.  Just  my  assumption.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Hey  Jib,  "really  low  pH"  is  already  acidic.
 
 pH  below  7  is  acidic  remember  !
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Shankar  you  are  right  !,  But  in  natural  bodies  the  volume  is  large  plus  there  will  be  a  flow  of  water,
 lots  more  bacteria  to  deal  with  rotting  leaves.  A  tank  is  more  trouble.
 Our  biological  filtration  almost  stops  at  pH  of  5.
 
 Then  comes  water  changes  to  deal  with  waste....  each  tome  you  need  aged  water  treated  with  leaves  to  same
 parameters.
 All  said  easier  to  go  with  pH  Down  which  buffers  to  whatever  pH  you  want  available  in  different  pH  range.
 Next  bet  is  peat,  have  lots  of  peat  in  the  substrate,  have  a  container  with  peat  for  water  storage  and  water  changes.
 Getting  good  peat  is  a  problem.
 or
 Do  what  Nikhil  does,  peat  in  the  tank  and  just  do  20%  water  change  with  tap  water  a  month.
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headbanger_jib
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Hey  Jib,  "really  low  pH"  is  already  acidic.
 
 pH  below  7  is  acidic  remember  !                
thats  what  i  wanted  to  say  but  paraphrased  it  wrongly  
 aaaaahhhhhh   Knock
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madhu_ulysses
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

                                                   
Madan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Madhu,  What  Buffers  distilled  water  to  a  STABLE  pH  of  4  ?                

 
 Nothing  actually  sir!   Smile  
 When  hard  water  is  treated  with  any  softener,  after  a  few  hours  of  aeration,  pH  tends  to  climb  up.   The  industrial  grade  distilled  water  has  nothing  at  all  in  it  and  hence  the  pH  remains  at  4.
 Few  years  back  when  I  tried  to  breed  cardinals  adding  Almond  leaf  extract,  phosphoric  acid  and  even  HCL  took  the  pH  to  4.5  with  a  hardness  of  a  bit  less  than  1,  but  a  few  hours  of  aeration  brought  it  back  to  5.5  whereas  distilled  water  stayed  inert  after  even  a  whole  night  of  strong  aeration.
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Madan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Madhu  go  get  your  fundas  straight  on  distilled  wtaer.
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surya_niki
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 Hi  ,
 
 Thank  you  for  your  responses.
 
 Madan/Nikhil  :  When  you  say  peat  over  here  which  one  can  be  directly  used  in  tthe  tank  ;  peat  moss  or  sphagnum  peat  moss?
 
 Is  there  a  difference  in  the  way  you  use  both  of  them  ?
 
 Will  surely  check  on  PH  down  .
 
 Regads,
 Surya
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retro_gk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering PH? Reply with quote

 I  wouldn't  worry  about  pH  if  I  were  you.  Stable  water  parameters  are  more  important  than  pH.  What  you  should  be  worrying  about  is  TDS/conductivity.
 
 Start  with  pure  RO,  measure  conductivity,  add  small  volumes  of  tap  water,  mix  well  and  measure  conductivity  again.  Repeat  till  you  get  about  14  uS/cm  on  the  conductivity  meter.  How  much  tap  water  you  add  will  depend  on  the  hardness  of  the  tap  water.  About  1  cup  in  5  liters  is  a  good  starting  point.
 
 This  water  can  be  used  to  house  and  breed  a  wide  range  of  blackwater  fish,  with  no  regard  for  pH.  You  also  don't  have  to  worry  about  pH  crashes,  provided  you  keep  up  with  regular  water  changes.  
 
 If  the  volume  of  water  in  the  system  is  more  than  50  liters,  you  can  throw  in  a  badam  leaf  or  two  to  bring  the  pH  down  to  about  6.
 
 I  am  yet  to  come  across  a  blackwater  fish  that  was  affected  by  a  neutral  pH  when  TDS  was  low.
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