Interesting to note that Tim's pair laid pinkish eggs. The eggs I observed in the wild were black and a little smaller than the ones in the pics that Tim has sent me. Possibly, as he expalined (in an offline email), from the large amounts of frozen bloodworms the breeding pair were fed.
Joined: Jun 29, 2003 Posts: 4263 Location: Chennai
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:59 am Post subject:
Vin wrote:
Way to go, Tim!
Interesting to note that Tim's pair laid pinkish eggs. The eggs I observed in the wild were black and a little smaller than the ones in the pics that Tim has sent me. Possibly, as he expalined (in an offline email), from the large amounts of frozen bloodworms the breeding pair were fed.
Vin
Los Angeles
Hi Vinny,
Any signs of spawning in your group of canarensis. The base colour almost appears golden in Tim's pictures. Did you notice such colors among the spawning fishes in the wild or is that just the camera?
Joined: Jun 29, 2003 Posts: 7087 Location: Bengaluru, India
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:02 am Post subject:
The best I've seen them try is in Adip's tank, where two of them were wriggling and dancing over the gravel under the overhang of a piece of driftwood.
Now I guess he'll have to add a few pieces of smooth flat rock into the tank.
Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Posts: 881 Location: New Delhi-India
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject:
Hi Tim,
I have read your post @ http://www.petfrd.com, but is it a good idea to have so many fishes in the same aquarium? Are we endangering the eggs or fry in that case? Specially when it is so difficult to breed them in captivity ?
Joined: Jun 29, 2003 Posts: 7087 Location: Bengaluru, India
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject:
Sujoy,
The very fact that he's got to spawn the E.canarensis is commendable.
With no one succeeding in spawning them before, I guess he's right in having a large community in his tank.
He can now separate the parents to their own tank and get going.
Now Tim's got some idea of what's needed to trigger the spawning (temperature drop - temp rising, feeding, water change), I guess from here on it will be a progression to perfection.
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 27 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject:
Hello, sorry about the delay in getting back to you
Here is a brief history:
I have a large (220 gallon) tank overpopulated with 20 E. Canarensis and 7 Puntius Denisonii, the Canarensis are two groups the oldest is now two years old and the younger group is about a year and a half (I acquired them a year ago, and they were very small, presumably from the Dec 2004/Jan 2005 season.) A pair formed from the older group and had an earlier unsuccessful spawn about 6-8 weeks ago.
This time, the water temperature had been 78F for some time, and we had a week of warm weather which caused the temp to perk up to 83F, this was followed by some initial courtship behaviour. Noticing this I made two significant water changes (2x25%) and fed them heavily with Mysis…..the water changes were made on Thursday and Friday, by Saturday afternoon the Oviduct was visible on the female, and nest-building had begun in a manner very reminiscent of E. Macalatus. Sunday evening the spawn occurred late in the day.
I posted some pics over on petfrd.com, and will post some here soon as well.....all is still well with the brood and the parents are constantly protecting and fanning the eggs.
I am also genuinely concerned about the tankmates especially when the fry hatch....I have another tank ready (full of devario metaegensis fry) which will need to find a new home ......but I haven't had the courage to disturb the happy family yet......
From what I have seen so far Vin is absolutely correct that the parents can and will effectively protect the nest, however after hatching I may need to give the family a new home.....any thoughts?
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 27 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject:
Yes, I am currently debating just what to do, I guess there are 4 options, 1.) Move parents and fry to separate tank
2.) Move fry to speparate tank
3.) Put in Divider of some sort
4.) Do Nothing and see what happens.
I am inclined to wait and let the hatch happen and see if any predation occurs, if so, Immediately move the fry to a safe tank.....although I realize that I do this at some risk..
Vin advises (and I tend to agree) that it is probably more interesting to see the natural interaction between parents and fry, and see what happens.......additionally that addition of a divider would be far to stressful to help the situation......obviously the safest thing to do would be to remove the eggs and hatch/rear the fry separatly, however I think we stand to learn more to leave the parents with the fry for now even at the risk.
Joined: Oct 07, 2004 Posts: 27 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:08 am Post subject:
Happy to report that after a very helpful telephone conversation with Vin we decided to bubble the eggs in their own tank well out of harm's way.... ....I have put some pictures up on petfrd.com (I am a html newbie) of the female coloration and my new "pet rock" in it's new, rather austere surroundings......now the work starts, so we'll hope for the best!!!!
I'll be sure to keep you all posted, in case there is anything I missed, pls also check the petfrd.com thread as well....[/img]
Not to be outdone by reports of spawnings 100 miles to the south, by the Mexican border, there was some spawning in my canarensis tank as well. Relax...it wasnt the canarensis. It was a group spawning and feeding of Roman proportions by the dithers - Rasbora daniconius. The females were plump like mollies and they were splashing and spraying eggs everywhere. In the heat of the moment, a gravid female jumped a good 10 feet and went splat. I picked her up and she pasted my hand full of eggs. Back in the tank and mobbed by 4 smaller males, she was spawning again in 10 minutes - the power of instinct! It was really interesting to watch the E. maculatus hover about waiting for an egg spray, which they'd snatch up rapidly. The 18 or so E. canarensis in the tank (180 gallons or about 680 liters) would swim up in a tight school every few minutes or so to snatch a few eggs but they were certainly not as tuned in to the egg-laying process as the E. maculatus. This is in keeping with behavior observed in the wild.
As for the E. canarensis in my tank, I only have 2 adults that are of breeding age and they are both females. The rest are barely a year and a half old. I dont expect any spawning in my group for another 6 months or so. These guys, like the Paretroplus of Madagascar, need to be at least 2 years old before they spawn. Some of the Paretroplines take 3 or 4 years before they are ready.
The formula for success with E. canarensis is getting much clearer to me now. Large tank+large group of canarensis+frequent large water changes+adult fish of at least 2 years of age+heavy feeding+mild temperature fluctuation ala Tim = spawn.
And, oh yeah, I plan on donating or bar-b-que-ing the Puntius denisonii before my canarensis are ready to spawn. The E. maculatus too. I may even replace the R. daniconius with some Chela or a tiny Rasbora species to act as dithers. P. denisonii are attractive and hardy but are NOT good tank mates for spawning canarensis!
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......but I haven't had the courage to disturb the happy family yet......
....I have put some pictures up on petfrd.com (I am a html newbie) of the female coloration and my new "pet rock" in it's new, rather austere surroundings......now the work starts, so we'll hope for the best!!!!
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