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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - The Puntius Gelius debate .
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The Puntius Gelius debate .

 
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andyrushworth
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:33 pm Post subject: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Hi  all  just  thought  I'd  ask  if  Hamiltons  Gelius  /Caninus  fishes  are  generally  accepted  ?
 
 Personally  I  feel  they  are  different  fishes   ,  quite  similar  but  different   Smile
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jerin111111
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 most  have  favored  it  bro
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Marc
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Right  now  P.  gelius  is  valid,  P.  canius  is  its  junior  synonym.  I  know  there  are  two  fish  under  this  id.  
 
 Please  tell  me  which  is  P.  gelius?  Then  we  can  sort  out  P.  canius   Very Happy
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andyrushworth
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:37 am Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Smile  I'm  afraid  its  easier  to  describe  Caninus   Chuckle   its  the  one  with  a  much  more  pointed  face  /head  and  has  black  in  its  ventral  fins  ,  it  also  has  more  yellow  in  the  body  and  grows  bigger   Smile  .
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Andy,  I  believe  your  conception  is  as  in  the  link  below  
 
 http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?genus=Puntius&species=gelius&id=173  
 
 If  I  may  ask.......on  what  basis  do  you  call  the  "pointed  face,  ventral  fin  spot,  more  yellow  fish"  a  P.  canius   Smile  
 
 Please  understand  that  I  ask  such  questions  so  that  I  know  whats  on  your  mind,  before  I  try  to  clarify  without  adding  to  the  confusion  Very Happy
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andyrushworth
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 To  be  honest  I'm  basing  on  appearance  again   Chuckle  just  curious  really  ,  do  you  think  we  are  looking  at  two  fish  or  just  variations  on  P.gelius  ?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Andy,
 
 Misconceptions  and  misinterpretations  have  masked  the  identity  of  many  a  fish.....one  such  is  the  P.  gelius.  
 
 There  is  nothing  to  prove  your  "pointed  face,  ventral  fin  spot,  more  yellow  fish"  as  P.  canius  and  not  P.  gelius.  Until  the  identity  of  P.  gelius  is  stabilised,  we  cannot  prove  anything  on  P.  canius.  
 
 The  range  of  P.  gelius  has  been  extended  upto  cuddalore  in  South  India  almost  2000  km  from  the  type  locality.  This  makes  a  lotta  regional  variants  getting  into  the  line  of  investigation.  Until  I  get  the  whole  lot  of  'variants'  from  Andrew  I  cannot  comment  further  Smile
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andyrushworth
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:42 am Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Isn't  it  fun  though  all  this  confusion   Cheer  There's  one  thing  for  sure  fishes  can  be  quite  ambiguous  Smile  
 
 I  have  to  add  though  if  the  case  for  Gelius/Canius  is  awkward  to  understand   then  the  case  for  the  Ticto  group  must  be  nigh  on  impossible   Chuckle  
 
 
 In  some  ways  as  a  hobbyist  its  probably  easier  to  express  opinions  about  different  fish  than  for  a  scientist  ,probably  because  its  a  hobby  as  opposed  to  a  job  ?  I  accept  that   Smile  
 
 
 If  a  hobbyist  was  to  set  up  a  large  tank  and  add  a  group  of  Gelius  and  a  group  of  Canius  ,say  ten  of  each  and  plant  it  from  top  to  bottom  leaving  the  fishes  to  procreate  and  they  never  hybridised  would  it  prove  anything  ?  
 
 B  t  w  I've  no  intentions  of  trying  it   Chuckle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: Re: The Puntius Gelius debate . Reply with quote

 Very  true  Andy,   Smile   I  agree  the  ambiguity  is  mainly  due  to  the  difficulty  in  sourcing  comparative  material.  
 
 Only  after  you  pointed  out,  did  I  realise  that  expressing  opinion  for  a  hobbyist  is  easier   Chuckle  I  guess  its  because  its  easier  for  a  hobbyist  to  brush  off  a  mistake  by  saying  I  based  my  opinion  on  appearence.......which  a  researcher  cannot  afford  to  do  Very Happy  
 
 Regarding  hybrids,  there  is  an  e-book  by  K.  Kortmulder  1972,  dealing  extensively  on  asian  barbs  and  hybrids.  Browse  through  when  you  find  time,  guess  you  would  find  it  interesting.  Reference  is  as  below....enjoy  reading  Thumb Up  
 
 Kortmulder,  K.  (1972).  A  comparative  study  in  colour  patterns  and  behaviour  in  seven  Asiatic  Barbus  species  (Cyprinidae,  Ostariophysi,  Osteichthyes).  Behaviour,  Supplement.  19,  331  pp
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