Joined: Dec 13, 2009 Posts: 69 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
Ok tried another time to inspect his cavity with a torch, noticed a few dark spots on the inside walls (may be black, will confirm tomorrow) so the first thing i'll do tomorrow is to remove the gravel and then inspect the fish.
No i didn't try palpating him as the aquarium is at a height and i didn't want to risk him taking a fall.
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
thats really nice kastor you are really helping this fh hobby slaute you and for the poor fish i hope it gets to normal soon as kastor friend has suggested everything possible
Joined: Dec 13, 2009 Posts: 69 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
First of all sorry Kastor, i couldn't do exactly as you mentioned. I took a bucket of water, added all you mentioned and the fish too, but i couldn't get a good enough grip on him to force him out of water and open his mouth. After trying many times i gave up and instead palpated the stomach, i didn't notice it being hard in any particular place.
However when i left the fish idle for sometime it relieved itself and i was able to get a shot of the poop. Now due to methylene blue it all appears blue in color, however i noticed it was thread-like, not like regular poo. The color was not white though, it was dark color as in a green colored bucket it was visible as dark spots.
I have uploaded a few pics of the poop and administered endoddyl-ex tablet for de-worming. Please let me know if it can be a case of worm build-up in the stomach.
EDIT: The tank was cleaned completely and all the gravel removed, it only has the big stone to aid filtration.
Joined: Dec 09, 2008 Posts: 648 Location: Mumbai Dahisar (w)
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
You did the right thing. Atleast we got to see the poop.
There doesn't seem to be any obstruction, especially in the lower/distal GI Tract.
The poop in't clear, but appears to be darker, thinner than usual and fragmented, not pale, thready and sticky. That's a good sign.
I don't know the contents of the tablet you administered, but if it is indicated for fish deworming, it was a good course of action on your part.
Lets wait and watch. Now that you have them in a barebottom, you can observe the poop everyday.
I remember seeing the inlet pipe of an external filter in your earlier pics. So why do you need a big stone for filtration? Loose it.
You did the right thing. Atleast we got to see the poop.
There doesn't seem to be any obstruction, especially in the lower/distal GI Tract.
The poop in't clear, but appears to be darker, thinner than usual and fragmented, not pale, thready and sticky. That's a good sign.
I don't know the contents of the tablet you administered, but if it is indicated for fish deworming, it was a good course of action on your part.
Lets wait and watch. Now that you have them in a barebottom, you can observe the poop everyday.
I remember seeing the inlet pipe of an external filter in your earlier pics. So why do you need a big stone for filtration? Loose it.
Ya the inlet pipe is for a canister filter. I thought a chucking the gravel and the huge stone may make the water cloudy so decided to keep it, will take it out tomorrow.
The tablet is for deworming the fish, tried googling for the tablet contents, but didn't find any results worth posting.
Do you still believe gravel might be stuck in the fish ? If it's able to poop its almost confirmed that the gravel being stuck in that tract is ruled out right ?
LFS gave me the tablet for deworming both fish, he also gave me some liquid for the sick fish alone, to be forced down it s mouth.
He said the fish may be able to eat tomorrow night or day after morning, expect nothing till then. Will post pics as and when i notice poop.
EDIT: 2 doubts:
1. When i have a canister filter in place, is it required to have a separate air pump in my tank ? Won't the canister take care of the oxygen requirements of the fish ?
2. Is it safe to leave the tank all night without the lid/top ? I'm paranoid the fish may try to jump out when frightened
You did the right thing. Atleast we got to see the poop.
There doesn't seem to be any obstruction, especially in the lower/distal GI Tract.
The poop in't clear, but appears to be darker, thinner than usual and fragmented, not pale, thready and sticky. That's a good sign.
I don't know the contents of the tablet you administered, but if it is indicated for fish deworming, it was a good course of action on your part.
Lets wait and watch. Now that you have them in a barebottom, you can observe the poop everyday.
I remember seeing the inlet pipe of an external filter in your earlier pics. So why do you need a big stone for filtration? Loose it.
Ya the inlet pipe is for a canister filter. I thought a chucking the gravel and the huge stone may make the water cloudy so decided to keep it, will take it out tomorrow.
The tablet is for deworming the fish, tried googling for the tablet contents, but didn't find any results worth posting.
Do you still believe gravel might be stuck in the fish ? If it's able to poop its almost confirmed that the gravel being stuck in that tract is ruled out right ?
LFS gave me the tablet for deworming both fish, he also gave me some liquid for the sick fish alone, to be forced down it s mouth.
He said the fish may be able to eat tomorrow night or day after morning, expect nothing till then. Will post pics as and when i notice poop.
EDIT: 2 doubts:
1. When i have a canister filter in place, is it required to have a separate air pump in my tank ? Won't the canister take care of the oxygen requirements of the fish ?
2. Is it safe to leave the tank all night without the lid/top ? I'm paranoid the fish may try to jump out when frightened
As I mentioned earlier, the poop is a sign that the lower GI Tract isn't obstructed.
What is this medication that the LFS guy has given you?
If your canister filter has an air inlet or an agitation chamber, separate aeration isn't required. But due to bitter experiences in the past, I wouldn't recommend relying upon a single source of aeration. It is always safe to have a backup in case, one fails at night.
Flowerhorns aren't the best jumpers. In the juvenile stage, their bodies re more streamlined and light and hence, juvies may jump at low heights for procurement of food or during a fight. But adults rarely attempt to jump at all. Their bulky bodies aren't suited for it. At the most, they can raise their snout 4-5 inches above water if fed that way or to catch some insect, but don't jump over, especially if fed well. So you can keep the lid open without worrying. They may spalsh the water however, when they are hungry.
As I mentioned earlier, the poop is a sign that the lower GI Tract isn't obstructed.
What is this medication that the LFS guy has given you?
If your canister filter has an air inlet or an agitation chamber, separate aeration isn't required. But due to bitter experiences in the past, I wouldn't recommend relying upon a single source of aeration. It is always safe to have a backup in case, one fails at night.
Thanks for the info Kastor. Medication the lhs guy gave is some homeopathy syrup, to be fed directly through's the fish's mouth. He only said it will help clear the stomach incase of an infection, which he suspected to be the case.
The canister i have only has an inlet and a outlet for water, no separate air inlet. The LHS guy was telling me to use an air pump, so i thought i'll check if its really required.
On the fish though, no change in the coloration or the swelling, however i notice he/she's a lot more active than say day before yesterday. Can we conclude that there's no gravel stuck in his/her body as we can see poop ?
Medication the lhs guy gave is some homeopathy syrup, to be fed directly through's the fish's mouth. He only said it will help clear the stomach incase of an infection, which he suspected to be the case.
It may work, but I wouldn't have done that unless I knew the contents. Better go for Flagyl (metronidazole) tablet/solution. It's safety and efficacy are both time tested.
The canister i have only has an inlet and a outlet for water, no separate air inlet. The LHS guy was telling me to use an air pump, so i thought i'll check if its really required.
Aeration is of vital importance. So an airpump is a must.
On the fish though, no change in the coloration or the swelling, however i notice he/she's a lot more active than say day before yesterday. Can we conclude that there's no gravel stuck in his/her body as we can see poop ?
The pooping after pressure application indicates that the lower GIT isn't obstructed. I won't be so sure about the upper GIT until the fish starts accepting food and pooping spontaneously.
The increased activity sure is a welcome sign.
Keep your eyes open.
Joined: Dec 13, 2009 Posts: 69 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
Ok but is it safe to shift to flagyl now ? Won't the change in medicine affect the fish ?
Plus, is flagyl available with the local medical store? What is the dosage and how is it to be given to the fish ? Dissolve it in water or through the mouth
Ok but is it safe to shift to flagyl now ? Won't the change in medicine affect the fish ?
Plus, is flagyl available with the local medical store? What is the dosage and how is it to be given to the fish ? Dissolve it in water or through the mouth
Surely safer than some unknown drug.
10 Tablets (200mg) cost you less thn 5 bucks.
A 30ml bottle of Flagyl oral Suspension ( 200mg/5ml ie. 40mg/ml ) won't cost you more than 10 bucks in any Medical store. Shake well before use.
IV solution is available in 100ml bottles/bags ( 500mg/100ml ie. 5mg/ml ) and won't cost you more than 20 bucks.
The dosage that I have used successfully over the years is 15-20mg/day for adult fish and 5-10mg/day for juvies. Your fish will require 20mg/day for 7 days.
You can use a calibrated dropper/needle-less syringe to administer approximately 20mg/day of the suspension orally, for 7 days. Just make sure that the dose is delivered deeper than the gill plates. The con is that his requires daily handling of the fish.
Alternatively, you can feed the fish with a disease free feeder fish, who is stuffed with 1/10th portion of tablet (euivalent to 20mg) every day for 7 days.
Alternatively, you can soak the pellets in the desired volume of solution (4ml), before feeding for the next 7 days. The fish needs to accept these.
Alternatively, you can dissolve the solution in the hospital aquarium water at the concentration of 1 ml per litre for the next 10 days.
Joined: Dec 13, 2009 Posts: 69 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
Ok i unsuccessfully tried to feed him today, but he wasn't interested. So feeder fish and pellets are ruled out i guess. If i choose to medicate the WHOLE main tank, is it bad for the other perfectly healthy fish ?
If not,I need a few tips on handling the fish if the medicine is to be administered directly. The spare tank i have is too small for the FH, so is it safe to keep him in the main tank and treat him ? Is it a good idea to shift him to a bucket for 7 days with an air pump alone ? Will he survive there for 7 days ? Will it be extremely stressful for him if i shift him to the bucket only for medicine, and later put him back to the tank ?
How do you all generally get a good hold on the fish, and force the medicine down his mouth ? It always slips outta my hand and ends up splashing water all over
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Flowerhorn face turns black, not eating since 5 days. He
well what i have tried sucessfully is mix the medicine in like warm water so it dissolves now take the medicine in dropper and hold the fish in a moist cotton cloth and invert it means belly up it sort of calms it down now open the mouth gently and drop the solution in the fishes mouth it will fight for freedom as the taste is not good but you have to down down carefully and after 30-40 sec release the fish back in water....
well what i have tried sucessfully is mix the medicine in like warm water so it dissolves now take the medicine in dropper and hold the fish in a moist cotton cloth and invert it means belly up it sort of calms it down now open the mouth gently and drop the solution in the fishes mouth it will fight for freedom as the taste is not good but you have to down down carefully and after 30-40 sec release the fish back in water....
Follow Sumit's advice pertaining to holding the fish.
or else, the bucket is a good idea.
Another alternative is to bring down the level of the water in the existing tank and treat both fish simultaneously by medicating the water in the directed dose. Now that you have a barebottom, thats possible.
You can even use quinine based medications available in the LFS for medicating the water.
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, i think you should be a fish vet. too good Sir.
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