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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Members
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Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Members
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brojo
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Posts: 376
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Members Reply with quote

 Trevor
 Since  you  are  the  moderator  I  am  addressing  it  to  you.  I  think  it  is  time  IAH  did  something  to  rate  people  who  buy  and  sell  plants,  fish,  equipment  and  other  stuff  here.  I  am  talking  about  something  like  they  have  on  eBay.
 
 Some  of  us  have  had  unfortunate  experience  with  dealing  with  certain  fellow  hobbyists  as  well  as  some  very  good  experience  with  others.  I  am  sure  similarly  there  are  same  two  categories  of  buyers  as  well  among  us.  My  limited  personal  experience  so  far  has  been  really  good.  But  I  know  of  people  who  really  felt  cheated  after  getting  stuff  even  after  advance  payment.  What  they  got  was  not  what  they  expected  or  were  promised.  Could  well  be  a  case  of  expectation  reality  mismatch  also  but  any  way,  the  feeling  was  genuine.
 
 I  agree  that  rating  system  is  something  very  complicated  and  perhaps  expensive  too.  Perhaps  it  can  also  be  manipulated.  Buyers  and  sellers  get  into  a  deal  Â at  their  own  risk,  agreed.  But  as  IAH  becomes  more  and  more  popular  unscrupulous  elements  will  definitely  get  in  as  hobbyists  -  both  as  buyers  and  sellers.  Probably  you  should  do  something  to  check  and  control  that  if  it  is  feasible.  
 Sudipto
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Perikaruppan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Consortium for Plants Availability Reply with quote

 Hi  guys...
 i  started  this  thread  somethin  to  know  as  to  whoz  got  what  plants...  so  that  when  we  require,  we  can  contact  them  and  get  those  plants...  as  i  have  spent  hell-a-lotta  money  in  singapore  purchases...  and  dont  wanna  repeat  again..  the  pace  in  which  i  am  going,  will  have  a  shipment  every  quarter...  Just  hoping  i  have  al  the  tropica  plants  and  many  more  in  this  list..  if  this  list  can  be  consolidated  plant-wise  who  has...  it  will  be  be  awsome  for  planted-nuts  like  is.  Hope  trevor  can  do  something  on  this!!!...
 
 brojo,  thatz  a  good  idea..  but  implementation  shall  be  a  messy  one...  i  guess...  if  we  turn  down  someone  as  bad,  then  that  person  should  not  be  allowed  to  comein  at  all..  so  that  it  eliminates  all  probabilities...  but  another  thing  to  ask  is,  what  if  he  comes  in  a  different  name?  ...  
 
 i  feel  the  only  way  to  buy  plants,  is  to  talk  with  the  guy  and  just  get  a  feel  as  to  how  he  is  and  then  enquire  with  your  IAH  friends  about  him...that  should  concrete  or  break  the  purchase...
 
 take  care
 Pk
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trevor
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Consortium for Plants Availability Reply with quote

                                                   
Perikaruppan  wrote  (View  Post):                
Brojo,  thatz  a  good  idea..  but  implementation  shall  be  a  messy  one...  i  guess...  if  we  turn  down  someone  as  bad,  then  that  person  should  not  be  allowed  to  comein  at  all..  so  that  it  eliminates  all  probabilities...  but  another  thing  to  ask  is,  what  if  he  comes  in  a  different  name?  ...  
 take  care
 Pk                

 Once  a  person  is  booted  out  he  normally  stays  out.
 Coming  in  under  a  different  name  is  impossible  on  the  same  computer  unless  we  knowingly  choose  to  ignore  it.  The  I.P  address  of  home  /office/cyber  cafe  computer  can  be  banned.
 Tracking  a  guy  and  his  location/city  is  easy  unless  he  is  like  the  Bofors  guy  on  the  run  -  Ottavio  Quattrocchi.
 Self  regulation  is  what  is  needed  and  the  IAH  moderators  are  very  lenient  but  will  tighten  up  when  the  need  arises  and  if  there  is  a  specific  genuine  complaint.
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ravi
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: unfortunate experience with dealing Reply with quote

 Hello,
 
 This  post  was  split  up  from  the  "List  of  Plants  you  have"  thread  started  by  Perikaruppan.  
 
 Brojo  &  other  who  "have  had  unfortunate  experience  with  dealing  with  certain  fellow  hobbyists",  please  send  me  details  thro  PM.  Let  me  see  if  this  is  a  rule  rather  than  an  exception.  Thanks.
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aquascapes
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Ravi,
 since  the  topic  is  on  -  why  not  put  a  small  disclaimer  in  a  sticky  thread  and  lock  it  there  (even  an  announcement)  that  what  ever  transactions  take  place  in  the  forum  will  be  strictly  between  the  buyer  and  seller  and  IAH  will  not  be  in  anycase  responsible  for  any  games  played  either  by  the  buyer  or  seller.
 One  more  thing  -  I  have  lately  noticed  a  lot  of  commercial  postings  comming  up  which  was  not  the  case  sometime  back  and  sometimes  the  home  page  is  full  of  threads  from  the  buy/sell/exchange  forums  ONLY   there  are  also  a  lot  of  members  who  are  only  active  in  the  commercial  forums  and  dont  post  anything  in  other  forums  -  is  there  anyway  we  could  restrict  these  postings  to  the  forum  and  not  have  exposure  on  the  home  page?  Desirable  people  can  go  to  the  forum  and  search  for  their  requirements?  Is  it  possible?
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 IP  bans  can  be  worked  around  and  it  wouldn't  really  be  fair  to  ban  someone  on  the  premise  that  another  member  was  unhappy  with  him/her.  I  don't  think  that  IAH  should  intervene  in  these  matters  unless  there  is  some  large  scale  scamming  going  on.
 Some  kind  of  feedback  sytem  like  Ebay  or  PTrader  points  on  www.plantedtank.net  would  be  a  great  idea  though.  
 
 I  agree  with  Nauzer  as  well.  There  should  be  a  disclaimer.   There  are  a  lot  of  commercial  postings  on  the  forums  nowadays  and  a  lot  of  them  are  blatantly  being  put  up  in  the  Buy/Sell  forums.
 A  lot  of  members  basically  only  use  the  forums  for  advertising  their  fish/equipment   for  sale  and  don't  do  anything  else.  Other  members  advertise  their  goods  on  threads  which  are  for  some  other  purpose  altogether.
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brojo
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 I  would  tend  to  agree  with  PSimhan.  Just  one  person's  unhappiness  should  not  be  reason  enough  to  ban  someone.  But  if  quite  some  people  point  to  the  same  person  then  the  person  can  be  warned  and  subsequently  thrown  out  if  he/she  doesn't  change.  This  is  where  moderators  and  site  administrators  come  into  play  by  using  their  sense  of  judgement  and  fair  play.  Do  disclaimers  really  work?  I  doubt.
 
 Ravi  -  I  didn't  have  any  "unfortunate  experience"  with  anyone.  Another  fellow  hobbyist  who  is  also  a  member  here  and  from  my  city  had.  He  is  too  polite  to  complain.  But  I  will  ask  him  to  send  you  a  PM  anyway.  I  appreciate  your  gesture.
 
 The  money  he  lost  is  quite  insignificant.  But  he  felt  bad  because  we  are  in  a  hobby  and  following  a  passion.  A  sentiment  robbed  and  denied  is  more  painful  than  some  money  lost.
 
 Some  commercial  members  are  easily  identified  by  their  posts  here.  They  only  put  up  posts  offering  something  for  sale  and  never  contribute  to  any  meaningful  discussion  on  any  aspect  of  the  hobby.  We  can  also  have  a  system  where  members  are  allowed  one  "for  sale"  post  for  every  five  or  ten  normal  posts.  This  will  discourage  out  and  out  commercial  posters.      
 
 There  are  still  some  other  members  who  have  turned  their  hobby  into  a  decent  business  and  offer  great  stuff  to  others.  These  guys  should  be  protected  by  IAH  by  all  means.  Because  they  add  a  lot  of  value  to  the  hobby.  I  have  personally  benefitted  from  two  of  them.  
 
 Sudipto
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ravi
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Hi  Pradeep,
 
 There's  a  disclaimer  already  there.  Checkout  the  forum  index  &  scroll  down  to  Buy  /  Sell  /  Exchange.
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trevor
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Let  me  help  him.  Smile  
 
 Buy/Sell/Exchange  
 So,  do  you  have  some  fishes  /  plants  /  tanks  /  equipment  or  aquarium  goods  which  you  want  to  exchange  for  something  else  ?  Trade  your  old  goodies  or  looking  to  buy  and  sell  new  equipment  ?Then  post  here  with  all  info.  Remember  IAH  is  not  responsible  for  any  deals  gone  sour.  So  please  verify  the  credentials  of  the  buyer  and  seller  before  you  strike  a  deal  and  exchange  cash.  IAH  will  not  mediate  in  any  dispute.  Other  than  posting  regarding  availability  of  fish  and  aquarium  related  materials  for  sale/exchange  no  other  discussion  regarding  price  etc.,  is  allowed  on  this  forum.  Please  contact  the  buyer/seller/trader  off  IAH  forums.  This  Forum  is  open  for  Hobbyists  only.
 Moderators  rrsriram,  Admin


Last edited by trevor on Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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deepesh
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Hi  all
 
 "Let  the  buyer  beware"  seems  to  be  pretty  prevalent  in  many  forums,  and  for  that  matter,  all  over  the  Internet.  Since  most  of  this  kind  of  transaction  is  beyond  "the  line  of  sight",  I  guess  it  all  depends  on  the  integrity  of  the  seller  versus  the  expectations  of  the  buyer.  Sometimes  it  also  works  the  other  way  around.  The  problem  being  that  the  transaction  is  finalized  BEFORE  ensuring  satisfaction  of  BOTH  parties.
 
 I  think  there  is  a  disclaimer  already  somewhere.  Either  in  the  guidelines  or  in  one  of  the  threads.  I  dont  remember  which.
 
 Feedback  seems  to  be  the  only  way  to  get  some  justice.  Unfortunately  in  open  platforms  such  as  this  particular  forum  I  think  free  and  frank  feedback  such  as  a  points  system  is  easily  worked  around  and  also  liable  to  degenerate  into  flamewars.
 
 Maybe  we  in  the  IAH  are  not  that  savvy  regarding  online  business  over  forums.
 
 What  I  was  thinking  is  that  maybe  we  can  easily  reinforce  "good  business  behaviour"  by  actively  giving  feedback  in  the  threads  themselves.  If  you  have  a  good  experience  doing  a  good  deal  with  someone  you  can  let  it  be  known  that  the  deal  went  well,  not  the  particulars.  I  guess  anybody  would  like  to  see  something  like  "XYZ,  those  were  some  really  good  ABCs  that  you  sent."  The  seller  gains  trust,  the  others  learn  who  to  trust.  If  someone  does  have  a  bad  experience  with  XYZ,  a  pm  to  the  group  moderators  would  be  an  option.
 
 True  this  type  of  stuff  can  be  easily  faked  but  to  have  established  members  endorse  such  feedback  is  what  would  make  such  comments  meaningful.
 
 All  in  all  it  calls  for  active  followup  in  the  buy/sell  forums.
 
 I  for  one  want  the  commercial  postings  to  continue.  <grin>  There  is  a  time  when  after  reading  the  1000th  post  on  nitrogen  cycle  that  I  want  to  feast  my  eyes  on  "24  inch  flowerhorn  for  sale,  looks  great,  eating  owner  out  of  house  and  home,  will  give  4  feet  aquarium  for  free".  Just  kidding  guys,  but  i  guess  you  know  the  tune.
 
 Opinions  differ.  Thats  how  forums  survive.
 
 Deepesh
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rgg
Committed Member of IAH
Committed Member of IAH



Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 1742
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Hey!!!!
   Not  sure  how  did  i  miss  this  wonderful  post.......  Great  idea  folks  and  thanks  to  sudipto  to  ignite  this..
 
   Yeh!!!  This  great  site  ment  to  share  knowledge  should  be  checked  from  being  an  indirect  commertial  /  marketing  only  site.
 
 Feedback  is  also  a  great  idea  and  Booting  ones  out  who  have  regular  negative  feedback  from  fellow  hobbiests  is  also  a  great  thought.  
 
 Raghu
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Bala_Kavi
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Posts: 349
Location: Chennai

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 All,
 
 I  am  not  a  very  active  participant  in  discussions  happening  out  here  but  I  still  login  everday  and  read  all  the  discussions,  as  hobbyists,  its  question  of  time  before   you   recognize  'true'  hobbyists  from  those  making  posts  for  commercial  reasons.  
 
 The  senior  IAH  members  have  always  helped  me  in  need  and  they  are  still  helping  me.  There  will  always  be  some  exceptional  cases  but  why  bother  about  those  people  when  we  know  that  majority  of  the  IAH  members  are  true  hobbyists  and  have  spent  a  lot  of  their  time  and  energy  to  propagate  this  wonderful  hobby.
 
 The  Admin  people  will  already  have  their  hands-full  with  the  regular  maintenance,  appreciate  the  effort  taken  by  Ravi,  Trevor  and  others  to  still  investigate  this  matter
 
 Regards
 Bala
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sandeepraghuvanshi
Moderator
Moderator



Joined: Aug 19, 2005
Posts: 4895
Location: Mathura, UP

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Hi  all
 My  two  pense.
 Ebay  or  other  such  sites  are  commerical  ventures.  IAH  is  not  a  commercial  venture,  other  wise  we  would  be  flooded  with  banners  &  a  host  of  other  promotional  material.
 I  don't  advocate  screening  or  controlling  of  commercial  postings.  My  line  of  argument  is  that,  every  set  of  controls  has  attendent  costs  in  terms  of  time,  effort  etc.  spent.  IAH  is  moderted  by  hobbyists  only,  so  let  us  not  burden  them  any  more.  If  we  want  to  check  about  any  particular  individual,  just  pm  some  of  senor  members  act  according  to  their  advice.
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vraghu
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Mar 31, 2006
Posts: 356
Location: Bangalore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 Hello  All,
 
 From  the  Day  i  started  Planning  my  Tank  ,  i  have  went  through  almost  all  the  Forum  here  in  IAH  and  it  really  helped  a  Ton  in  creating  a  Wonderful  Tank  i  have  now  ,  even  though  some  of  the  Chemical  names  ,  abbreviations  (PPM's  ,  KH  ,  GH  etc  etc)   passed  waay  above  my  head     Chuckle   
 
 The  thorough  reading  of  the  Forums  and  interacting  with  various  IAH  Guys  have  given  me  lots  of  info  which  was  enough  for  me  to  choose  which  one  was  right  and  which  one  is  wrong..  same  goes  with  the  case  when  interacting  with  people  and  dealing  with  them.
 
 Now  everyone  wants  information  in  a  quick  second  and  they  all  want  a  Quick   Mr.  Fixit  Solution  without  wanting  to  browse  through  the  Forums  or  the   user  postings  ,  well  then  they  should  be  also  be  ready  to  take  the  downside  of  that  ...  which  will  be  lots  of  misinformation  ,  Steep  Pricing  and  Cheating  ...  This  could  have  been  easily  avoided  if  anyone  who  has  serious  enough  in  his  hobby  could  have  gone  through  the  Forums...  which  most  of  them  now  a  days  don't  want  to....   or  they  are  not  bothered  or  don't  have  the  time...  well...  then  they  should  be  also  ready  to  take  the  downside  of  it  too...  
 
 RaghuV.
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congo
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Posts: 244
Location: puducherry

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: Re: Unfortunate experience while dealing with other IAH Memb Reply with quote

 hi  all
                buyers  -  beware.  there  are  rough  glass  among  diamonds
                seller     -  must  be  sensible  and  responsible  too.
   in  my  opinion  ,  there  sholud  be  no  screening  or  control  over  buy/sell/exchange  forum.  instead  buyers  should  provide  us  active  feedbacks  ,  so  that  fellow  hobbyist  are  also  aware  of.thus  such  things  can  be  controlled
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