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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy]
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Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy]
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Eureca
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 hi  friends  
 
 Inspired  from  Shelly  dsilva  and  ada  aquasky  i  started  to  build  a  look  alike  for  my  nano  tank  with  10  w  cob  leds  .
 
 with  my  limited  knowledge  in  electronics  i  reached  to  a  point  beyond  which  i  cant  proceed  any  further   Crying or Very sad  .
 
 the  issues  are  of  leds  heating  ,  dont  know  if  its  normal  ,  please  help  me  .
 
 here  are  the  specs
 
 Driver
 12  v  ,   2  amps
 led
 2X10  w  cob  leds
 
 
 Here  is  my  tank  besides  my  work  table
 
 
 
 Used  Araldite  Klear  at  the  heat  sink  edges  after  applying  a  layer  of  thermal  paste  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 i  should  have  done  a  better  study  with  custom  made  heat   sinks  ,  any  how  didint  find  any  information  on  custom  heat  sink  anywhere  near  my  town.  would  love  to  know  more  about  heat  sink  to  cool  down  this  setup.
 
 
 
 the  ugly  part  ,  top  view  with  wires  exposed
 
 
 
 
 
 This  is  not  a  cooling  machine  as  the  gauge  indicates  ,  the  heat  just  crossed  the  threshold  of  the  thermometer  soon  after  i  turned  off  the  fan  in  the  room.  the  room  temp  is  around  approx  degree  this  summer  Chuckle   
 
 
 
 Cooling  system  as  of  now   Sad  ,  the  entire  setup  was  supposed  to  bring  down  power  consumption  .
 
 
 
 temp  dropped  as  soon  as  fan  was  turned  on
 
 
 
 
 looks  like  this  setup  might  need  a  active  heat  sink  .  
 
 My  wife  and  dad  has  an  evil  Plan  to  make  instant  tea  and  coffee  placing  a  vessel  over  the  heat  sink
 
 i  badly  need  to  know  the  working  temperature  infos  on  leds  and  how  to  and  where  to  get  a  heat  sink  done  .  (in  karnataka  or  kerala)
 
 and  on  optics  ,  can  optics  amplify  the  Lumen  or  just  bend  light  to  a  preferred  spot,  so  far  i  have  failed  to  find  an  optic  for  10  w  cob  leds.
 
 i  have  plans  to  upgrade  the  same  to  1  watt  leds  .  instead  of  directly  mounting  led  to  heat  sink  ,  can  a  pcb  be  used  ,  if  so  what  to  use  to  conduct  heat  to  the  heat  sink  .  
 
 Experts  please  help  .
 
 
 
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Preeths
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 Do  you  know  any  place  where  they  recycle  old  computers?  buy  a  couple  of  heat  sinks  used  for  the  graphics  card  and  attach  the  led's  directly  to  them.  the  heat  sinks  come  with  a  small  fan.  That  might  or  might  not  work  properly.  But  at  this  point  you  are  still  experimenting?You  could  have  used  multiple  3W  LED's
 
 From  my  personal  experience,  the  LED  you  are  using  currently  is  no  good  for  plants.  It  gives  out  bright  white  light  but  no  where  near  the  useful  color  temperature.  So  your  plants  wont  grow.
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Eureca
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

                                                   
Preeths  wrote  (View  Post):                
Do  you  know  any  place  where  they  recycle  old  computers?  buy  a  couple  of  heat  sinks  used  for  the  graphics  card  and  attach  the  led's  directly  to  them.  the  heat  sinks  come  with  a  small  fan.  That  might  or  might  not  work  properly.  But  at  this  point  you  are  still  experimenting?You  could  have  used  multiple  3W  LED's
 
 From  my  personal  experience,  the  LED  you  are  using  currently  is  no  good  for  plants.  It  gives  out  bright  white  light  but  no  where  near  the  useful  color  temperature.  So  your  plants  wont  grow.                

 
 yes  preeth  ,  still  experimenting  with  the  leds  ,  so  far  i  was  not  able  to  find  .5  w  leds  and  optics  ,  so  used  these  2X10  w  leds  .
 i  have  already  dismantled  a  heat  sink  from  my  dead  graphics  card   Smile  .
 http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj603/liveplanter/xhobby_zps5c08c795.jpg
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saikumar
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 My  few  cents.  
 Add  two  more  bars  side  by  side,  totally  3  if  you  can.
 Change  to  a  flat  bar  and  then  add  CPU  heatsink  over  it.  (like  this  http://www.aquascapingworld.com/attachments/wp_001380-jpg.7637/)
 Give  some  more  gap  inbetween  them.
 Your  LEDs  can  grow  enough  plants  IMO,  just  try  to  keep  them  alive.
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saikumar
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

                                                   
Eureca  wrote  (View  Post):                
My  wife  and  dad  has  an  evil  Plan  to  make  instant  tea  and  coffee  placing  a  vessel  over  the  heat  sink
                 

 Thats  a  good  idea  Very Happy  ,  because  the  bottom  line  anyway  is-  "heat  will  be  generated"  even  with  or  w/o  efficient  heatsink.  So  why  not  use  for  good.
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 i  badly  need  to  know  the  working  temperature  infos  on  leds  and  how  to  and  where  to  get  a  heat  sink  done  .  (in  karnataka  or  kerala)
 
                 

 I  think  its  100deg  is  max  for  most  of  them.  But  worse  is  not  LED  burning  but  the  stuff  beside  the  heatsink  which  might  burn/flame.
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Mortis
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 You  cant  use  the  10W  LEDs  with  passive  cooling.  Replace  with  10  x  1W  LEDs.  They  will  be  more  than  enough  over  your  1  ft  cube  and  without  lenses  you  will  get  a  good  spread  and  coverage.
 
 Colour  of  the  LEDs  dont  matter  so  much.  6500K  is  fine  but  you  can  go  for  7x1W  6500K  and  3x1W  2700-3000K  to  make  it  look  better  to  the  eye..
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Eureca
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Thats  a  good  idea  Very  Happy  ,  because  the  bottom  line  anyway  is-  "heat  will  be  generated"  even  with  or  w/o  efficient  heatsink.  So  why  not  use  for  good.                

 
 Yes  !  multipurpose  lighting  unit  ,  not  even  Ada  would  have  had  a  thought  about  it  .  
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
I  think  its  100deg  is  max  for  most  of  them.  But  worse  is  not  LED  burning  but  the  stuff  beside  the  heat  sink  which  might  burn/flame.                

 
 Cant  afford  if  that  happens  .  Acrylic  melts  at  160  degrees  .
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 You  cant  use  the  10W  LEDs  with  passive  cooling.  Replace  with  10  x  1W  LEDs.  They  will  be  more  than  enough  over  your  1  ft  cube  and  without  lenses  you  will  get  a  good  spread  and  coverage.
 
 Colour  of  the  LEDs  dont  matter  so  much.  6500K  is  fine  but  you  can  go  for  7x1W  6500K  and  3x1W  2700-3000K  to  make  it  look  better  to  the  eye                

 
 Never  had  any  experience  with  led  and  their  temperature  ,  after  using  i  too  felt  that  aluminium  channels  i  used  wont  do  the  job  with  10  w  leds  .
 thanks  for  the  suggestion  mortis  ,  this  should  really  help  me  .
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Mortis
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 The  channels  will  be  fine  with  the  1W  LEDs.  If  possible  get  a  channel  with  thicker  metal  and  you  can  also  keep  the  LEDs  cooler  by  running  them  at  say  75%  of  their  max  output  and  make  up  for  the  lower  light  by  adding  a  few  extra  LEDs
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Eureca
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

                                                   
Mortis  wrote  (View  Post):                
The  channels  will  be  fine  with  the  1W  LEDs.  If  possible  get  a  channel  with  thicker  metal  and  you  can  also  keep  the  LEDs  cooler  by  running  them  at  say  75%  of  their  max  output  and  make  up  for  the  lower  light  by  adding  a  few  extra  LEDs                

 
 this  can  be  done  by  using  a  driver  with  lower  amps  than  the  LEDS  require  ?
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 Yes  Vijay...  When  you  drive  the  led's  to  their  maximum  intensity,  the  heat  emission  will  be  higher.  Intensity  is  proportional  to  the  heat  emitted.  So  less  intensity,  less  heat.
 
 If  you  want  to  have  higher  intensity,  then  you  need  a  better  heat  sink.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 Hi  Eureca,
 
 1.  The  power  supply  will  eventually  toast  your  leds.  Need  to  run  them  using  a  constant  current  driver.  To  run  2  of  them,  you  need  to  connect  them  in  series  (1000ma  24v)  .  To  run  1,  you  will  need  1000ma  12v  driver.  
 
 2.  If  using  optics,  you  will  probably  need  just  one  10w  for  your  tank.  Optics  will  help  you  focus  most  of   the  light  right  into  the  tank,  but  the  height  of  the  fixture  will  have  to  be  adjusted  to  even  the  light  spread.   If  the  height  of  the  fixture  is  6"  or  less,  a  90  degree  optic  should  work  fine.  These  optics  are  available  on  dx,  ebay  and  other  sites  like  satisled,  led-dna  etc.  Buy  the  ones  from  HK  or  China  so  that  you  get  it  at  a  good  price  and  negligible  shipping  cost.  Downside  is  the  shipping  time,  anywhere  between  2-4  weeks.   Drivers  are  available  on  these  sites  and  locally  as  well  
 
 3.  A  good  heatsink  will  be  a  socket  478/P4  heatsink.  Zebronics  has  one  for  a  low  price  -  it's  low  profile  /slim  and  looks  nice.  If  you  plan  to  use  2  leds,  you  will  need  2  of  them.  You  can  power  the  fan  with  a  mobile  charger,  the  fan  does  not  need  to  run  very  fast.  A  gentle  flow  of  air  should  be  enough.  You  should  be  able  to  touch  the  heatsink  and  it  should  feel  warm  at  most.
 
 4.  Drill  and  fix  the  leds  on  the  heatsink.  Will  make  it  easier  to  replace  them  and  they  will  be  safe  that  way.  Araldite  will  start  to  melt/loosen  above  70C.  To  take  them  out  of  the  current  aluminum  flat,  try  prying  it  open  with  a  flat  screwdriver.
 
 The  acrylic  fixture  looks  great.  Did  you  make  it  yourself?
 
 Regards,
 
 Abhishek
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Eureca
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Yes  Vijay...  When  you  drive  the  led's  to  their  maximum  intensity,  the  heat  emission  will  be  higher.  Intensity  is  proportional  to  the  heat  emitted.  So  less  intensity,  less  heat.
 
 If  you  want  to  have  higher  intensity,  then  you  need  a  better  heat  sink                

 
 I  would  love  to  see  your  heat  sink  Shelly  ,  will  upgrade  to  1  or  .5  watts  leds  as  soon  as  i  find  a  good  enough  heat  sink  .
 
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                

 1.  The  power  supply  will  eventually  toast  your  leds.  Need  to  run  them  using  a  constant  current  driver.  To  run  2  of  them,  you  need  to  connect  them  in  series  (1000ma  24v)  .  To  run  1,  you  will  need  1000ma  12v  driver.
 
 2.  If  using  optics,  you  will  probably  need  just  one  10w  for  your  tank.  Optics  will  help  you  focus  most  of   the  light  right  into  the  tank,  but  the  height  of  the  fixture  will  have  to  be  adjusted  to  even  the  light  spread.   If  the  height  of  the  fixture  is  6"  or  less,  a  90  degree  optic  should  work  fine.  These  optics  are  available  on  dx,  ebay  and  other  sites  like  satisled,  led-dna  etc.  Buy  the  ones  from  HK  or  China  so  that  you  get  it  at  a  good  price  and  negligible  shipping  cost.  Downside  is  the  shipping  time,  anywhere  between  2-4  weeks.   Drivers  are  available  on  these  sites  and  locally  as  well
 
 3.  A  good  heatsink  will  be  a  socket  478/P4  heatsink.  Zebronics  has  one  for  a  low  price  -  it's  low  profile  /slim  and  looks  nice.  If  you  plan  to  use  2  leds,  you  will  need  2  of  them.  You  can  power  the  fan  with  a  mobile  charger,  the  fan  does  not  need  to  run  very  fast.  A  gentle  flow  of  air  should  be  enough.  You  should  be  able  to  touch  the  heatsink  and  it  should  feel  warm  at  most.
 
 4.  Drill  and  fix  the  leds  on  the  heatsink.  Will  make  it  easier  to  replace  them  and  they  will  be  safe  that  way.  Araldite  will  start  to  melt/loosen  above  70C.  To  take  them  out  of  the  current  aluminum  flat,  try  prying  it  open  with  a  flat  screwdriver.
 
 The  acrylic  fixture  looks  great.  Did  you  make  it  yourself?  
                 

 
 Abhiskek  ,  the  details  are  in  depth  and  extremely  helpful  ,  i  will  still  need  to  learn  on  your  first  point  ,i  am  quite  scared  of  electricity  but  this  time  i  ll  surely  learn  Smile  .  
 I  have  already  removed  a  heat  sink  from  my  graphics  card
 
 
 
 its  just  10  mm  in  thickness  to  suite  the  acrylic  .  tempted  me  a  lot  to  use  it  ,  but  i  guess  this  wont  be  necessary  if  i  use  .5  or  1  watts  LEDS  ,  
 using  larger  heat  sinks  will  spoil  the  aesthetics  of  the  ada  aquasky  .
 
 The  acrylic  was  cut  using  a  cnc  machine  ,  i  think  u  have  not  come  across  Ada  aquasky  and  Shellys  custom  made  leds  they  are  very  sleek  and  hardly  distract  our  attention  from  the  scape  .
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josyjames
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 @  Vijay,
 
 There  is  nothing  new  in  the  heatsink  I  am  using.  Its  the  regular  aluminium  heat  sink  that  I  use  in  my  setup.  I  just  got  is  silver  anodized.
 
 There  are  pics  in  the  FB  album.  Link
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masmer78
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Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 86
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

 Shelly's  leds  are  legendary  :)
 
 Aquasky  uses  smd  leds,  probably  5630  or  something  similar.  Working  with  these  leds  are  difficult,  so  would  suggest  to  get  good  quality  1w  leds  instead  and  under  drive  them  at  0.5w.  You  will  get  lesser  heat  and  higher  efficiency.
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Eureca
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Joined: Nov 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Need help with led setup ..ada aquasky [Copy] Reply with quote

                                                   
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 @  Vijay,
 
 There  is  nothing  new  in  the  heatsink  I  am  using.  Its  the  regular  aluminium  heat  sink  that  I  use  in  my  setup.  I  just  got  is  silver  anodized.
 
 There  are  pics  in  the  FB  album.  Link                  

 
 Any  how  your  work  looks  great  .   might  be  grass  is  greener  on  the  other  side  :)
 
 
                                                 
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 Shelly's  leds  are  legendary  :)
 
 Aquasky  uses  smd  leds,  probably  5630  or  something  similar.  Working  with  these  leds  are  difficult,  so  would  suggest  to  get  good  quality  1w  leds  instead  and  under  drive  them  at  0.5w.  You  will  get  lesser  heat  and  higher  efficiency.
                 

 
 Wont  under  driving  leds  also  generate  heat  ?  is  it  okay  to  use  lower  voltage  leds  or  should  i  use  only  12  volts  leds  ,  or  should  i  be  only  be  worried  about  lumens  .  is  it  possible  to  custom  driver  for  the  same  ?
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