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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency??
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Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency??

 
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robero
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Hello  everyone
 
 Please  help  me  id  the  algae.  Is  it  green  spot  algae?
 
 Plants  are  also  showing  pale  growth.  Also  had  a  recent  rhizoclonium  outbreak.
 
 Could  it  be  phosphate  deficiency?
 
 
 
 
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Andrew
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 looks  like  too  much  light  and  low  co2,  can  you  provide  more  details  about  your  tank  like  dimension,filter  and  fert  dosing  method  to  understand  the  issue  more,  go  through  the  below  site  for  more  details  about  algae.
 
 http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
 
 http://www.aquariumplants.com/Articles.asp?ID=111
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robero
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Thanks  for  the  articles.
 
 Tank  is  42  gallons  30x18x18
 Lights  2x24W  T5HO  +2x36W  PLL
 Co2  is  5  bps  with  external  reactor.  Drop  checker  is  always  lime  green.
 
 Dosing  Sad  1/4  tsp  KNO3.  1/16  tsp  KH2PO4.  1/32  tsp  K2SO4.  1  CAPFUL  SEACHEM  FLOURISH)  x  thrice  a  week
 3/4  capful  seachem  iron  everyday  +  1  capful  seachem  excel  everyday
 
 Filter  is  one  IPF  and  one  2215  Eheim  canister  filter.
 
 please  help
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Andrew
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Hi  Robero,
 
 Too  much  lighting,  is  this  a  new  setup?,  if  yes  then  you  need  to  have  photo  period  for  4-5  hours  at  the  start  and  once  plants  get  settled  increase  the  period  step  by  step,  cut  down  the  pll  lighting  use  only  T5HO  for  now.  stop  dosing  excel  when  you  have  pressurized  co2  no  need  for  excel,  if  excel  dosed  higher  it  will  melt  the  plants  1  capfull  daily  is  a  kill  to  your  plants  so  stop  dosing  excel  i  guess  you  dosing  for  controlling  algae,  and  stop  dosing  iron  now  once  your  tank  is  established  then  start  dosing  iron  if  needed  otherwise  flourish  is  more  than  enough.   
 
 Flow  and  distribution  plays  a  major  role  in  planted  tank,  so  place  the  flow  correctly  do  post  a  full  tank  shot  so  that  we  can  guide  you  more  on  flow  and  distribution  and  also  provide  details  about  your  photo  period  timing  and  how  old  your  tank  is.
 
 Note  switch  co2  a  hour  before  light  comes  up  and  switch  off  a  hour  before  your  light  goes  off
 
 If  this  is  a  new  setup  change  50%  water  every  3  days  for  first  3  weeks.  clean  the  gsa  with  sponge  or  scrubber  and  follow  the  points  above  you  will  see  lot  of  difference  in  3  days  itself  Smile,  but  do  provide  the  details  asked.
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saikumar
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

                                                   
Andrew  wrote  (View  Post):                
Hi  Robero,
 
 Too  much  lighting,  is  this  a  new  setup?,  if  yes  then  you  need  to  have  photo  period  for  4-5  hours  at  the  start  and  once  plants  get  settled  increase  the  period  step  by  step,  cut  down  the  pll  lighting  use  only  T5HO  for  now.  stop  dosing  excel  when  you  have  pressurized  co2  no  need  for  excel,  if  excel  dosed  higher  it  will  melt  the  plants  1  capfull  daily  is  a  kill  to  your  plants  so  stop  dosing  excel  i  guess  you  dosing  for  controlling  algae,  and  stop  dosing  iron  now  once  your  tank  is  established  then  start  dosing  iron  if  needed  otherwise  flourish  is  more  than  enough.   
 
 Flow  and  distribution  plays  a  major  role  in  planted  tank,  so  place  the  flow  correctly  do  post  a  full  tank  shot  so  that  we  can  guide  you  more  on  flow  and  distribution  and  also  provide  details  about  your  photo  period  timing  and  how  old  your  tank  is.
 
 Note  switch  co2  a  hour  before  light  comes  up  and  switch  off  a  hour  before  your  light  goes  off
 
 If  this  is  a  new  setup  change  50%  water  every  3  days  for  first  3  weeks.  clean  the  gsa  with  sponge  or  scrubber  and  follow  the  points  above  you  will  see  lot  of  difference  in  3  days  itself  Smile,  but  do  provide  the  details  asked.                

 
 +1,  stick  to  the  advice  Robero
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robero
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Thanks  Andrew  and  Saikumar.
 
 The  tank  is  actually  3  months  old  now  with  ADA  Aquasoil  substrate.
 
 I  have  adequate  flow  in  the  tank  and  I  turn  on  CO2  1.5  hours  before  photoperiod.  My  tank  was  actually  doing  great  for  2  months  with  Half  EI  dosing.  The  only  algae  I  had  was  diatom.
 
 But  from  the  2nd  half  of  the  third  month  I  noticed  my  alternanthera  mini  has  almost  stopped  growing.  Old  leaves  were  losing  colour,  melting  away  with  brown  spots.  Spindly  and  curled  new  growth  and  soon  rhizoclonium  took  over.
 
 Then  I  noticed  my  staurogyne  old  leaves  turning  yellow.
 
 I  switched  to  1/2  tsp  of  KNO3  and  1/4  tsp  of  KH2PO4  and  2  caps  of  trace.  Luckily  my  alternanthera  was  sprouting  new  leaves  again.
 
 Then  I  realised  that  as  per  EI  I  should  be  doing  1/8  tsp  of  KH2PO4.  When  I  started  cutting  back  from  1/4  tsp  of  KH2PO4,  the  problem  with  alternanthera  emerged  again.
 
 I  drilled  down  the  problem  to  low  phosphate  perhaps.
 
 which  is  the  reason  behind  this  post.
 
 Anyways  I  will  cut  back  my  lights  if  that  can  solve  the  problem
 
 I  am  posting  my  tank  shots  as  it  was  1  month  back.  It  was  much  better  than  what  it  is  now.
 
 [url=https://flic.kr/p/pPdQrm]
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Andrew
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Hi  Robero,
 
 Diatom  appears  at  the  initial  stage  of  tank  setup  and  once  tank  get  mature  it  will  go,  mostly  people  do  mistake  in  earlier  stage  by  providing  too  much  light  like  feeding  a  baby  with  adult  food,  you  need  to  stop  dosing  seachem  excel  and  iron  for  now  and  it's  better  you  change  to  EI  solution  method,  because  once  your  plants  are  not  observing  the  nutrients  then  it  will  become  toxic  in  the  tank.  looks  like  you  have  other  algae  issue  also  in  your  tank.  it's  3  month  old  so  you  have  photo-period  for  5  hours  that  is  more  than  enough  and  remove  the  pll  lighting  totally,  your  T5  is  more  than  enough  for  your  tank  and  i'm  not  able  to  see  the  output  of  your  canister  filter  position  in  the  tank  make  sure  you  have  flow  from  one  direction  for  proper  distribution  around  the  tank.  The  basic  rule  is  10  times  higher  the  flow  of  your  tank  i.e  if  your  tank  is  200  litre  you  need  to  have  2000litre/hr  flow  rating  inside  your  tank.  
 
 What  is  your  tank  water  is  it  tap  water  if  yes  whether  it  is  soft  or  hard  water  or  you  using  RO  water  because  you  mentioned  curved  or  twisted  new  tips  in  the  growth  sounds  like  calcium  deficiency  so  we  need  to  look  your  water  quality  also.  And  EI  dosing  is  a  method  where  you  dose  double  the  nutrient  level  in  the  tank  actually  that's  the  reason  you  doing  50%  water  change  every  7  days  for  re-setting  the  water  column.  but  no  worries  because  nutrient  doesn't  create  algae  it's  always  the  light  n  co2  which  causes  algae  when  it's  not  properly  matched.  you  just  remove  your  pll  lighting,  and  change  your  photo  period  for  5  hours  will  see  the  effect  in  a  week.  And  make  sure  your  flow  and  distribution  is  good.
 
 And  better  make  EI  dosing  solution  so  it  will  be  easy  to  alter  the  dose  and  also  consider  PPS-PRO  dosing  if  you  interested  and  below  are  some  links  for  you  to  understand  the  issue  better.
 
 http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm
 
 http://www.ukaps.org/forum/forums/tutorials.34/
 
 https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro
 
 http://blog.greenleafaquariums.com/2013/02/28/our-new-pps-pro-fertilizer-pack-just-mix-dose/
 
 http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.in/
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Thanks  Andrew  for  all  the  inputs.  I  visited  the  sites.  Looks  like  I  have  been  to  them  in  my  quest  for  knowledge  except  the  sites  related  to  PPS  Pro.
 
 One  quick  update:
 
   I  upped  my  phosphates  and  soon  saw  new  growth  from  my  alternanthera  mini.  The  thread  algae  on  the  glosso  reduced  to  a  bare  minimum  almost  overnight.  So  far  tank  looks  good  and  promising.
 
 Thanks  for  the  support.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Hi  Andrew,
 
 I  have  a  question  here.  
 Usually  the  plants  take  in  Oxygen  and  give  out  CO2  during  the  non-photosynthesis  period  (when  the  lights  are  out).  
 So,  shouldn't  the  lights  be  switched  on  first  (so  that  Photosynthesis  process  would  use  up  the  accumulated  CO2)?  
 My  assumption  was  that  the  lights  coming  on  later  would  increase  the  CO2  levels  (as  switching  on  CO2  earlier  would  add  to  the  overnight  accumulated  CO2  during  the  non-photosynthesis  period  )  ?
 
 Forgive  me  if  my  Question  was  too  silly   Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

                                                   
Karthik1521  wrote  (View  Post):                
Hi  Andrew,
 
 I  have  a  question  here.  
 Usually  the  plants  take  in  Oxygen  and  give  out  CO2  during  the  non-photosynthesis  period  (when  the  lights  are  out).  
 So,  shouldn't  the  lights  be  switched  on  first  (so  that  Photosynthesis  process  would  use  up  the  accumulated  CO2)?  
 My  assumption  was  that  the  lights  coming  on  later  would  increase  the  CO2  levels  (as  switching  on  CO2  earlier  would  add  to  the  overnight  accumulated  CO2  during  the  non-photosynthesis  period  )  ?
 
 Forgive  me  if  my  Question  was  too  silly   Sad                

 
 That  was  a  nice  question  though,  but  whatever  co2  released  during  night  is  far  below  for  the  plants  to  do  photosynthesis  at  daytime  if  you  got  a  co2  drop  checker  you  can  see  at  night  the  color  will  become  blue  to  dark  green,  In  night  because  of  water  agitation  you  will  loose  the  co2  buildup  this  happens  in  daytime  also  thats  the  reason  you  use  diffuser  for  diffusing  co2  into  water.  Below  is  a  link  you  will  get  better  technical  answers.
 
 http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Co2/co2_faq.htm#T04
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Dear  Andrew,
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  the  meticulous  explanation.
 
 Dear  Robero,  
 You  may  find  my  article  Aquatic  Plant  nutrients  explained  useful.
 
 To  me  your  tank  looks  like  extra  light,  reducing  light  should  recover  your  tank.  
 High  Co2  should  not  cause  harm  to  you  plants  (as  long  as  you  switch  is  off  during  night),  but  unused  co2  is  a  wastage  of  money.
 
 Good  Luck
 Deepak
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Andrew
Regular Poster on IAH
Regular Poster on IAH



Joined: Apr 03, 2014
Posts: 393
Location: Coimbatore

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

                                                   
Deepak267  wrote  (View  Post):                
Dear  Andrew,
 
 Thanks  a  lot  for  the  meticulous  explanation.
 
 Dear  Robero,  
 You  may  find  my  article  Aquatic  Plant  nutrients  explained  useful.
 
 To  me  your  tank  looks  like  extra  light,  reducing  light  should  recover  your  tank.  
 High  Co2  should  not  cause  harm  to  you  plants  (as  long  as  you  switch  is  off  during  night),  but  unused  co2  is  a  wastage  of  money.
 
 Good  Luck
 Deepak                

 
 Nice  article  and  tank,  i  tried  to  register  but  it's  coming  to  login  page  only  Sad
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robero
Frequent Visitor to IAH
Frequent Visitor to IAH



Joined: Nov 21, 2010
Posts: 165
Location: Kolkata

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Pale growth..GSA..Phosphate Deficiency?? Reply with quote

 Thanks  a  lot  Andrew  and  Karthik  for  all  the  information  and  links  that  you  shared.  Its  because  of  people  like  you  ,  we  newbies  get  a  lot  of  enthusiasm  and  hope  to  continue  with  the  hobby.
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