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http://indianaquariumhobbyist.com/community/ :: View topic - Fish dropping like flies, Help please
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Fish dropping like flies, Help please
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Since  Monday,  I  have  lost  2  discus,  1  piranha,  an  SAE  and  a  swordtail.  
 
 I  am  not  sure  if  the  problems  are  related  at  all  but  something  crazy  is  happening.  
 
 The  discus  arrived  on  Thursday  last  and  most  acclimatised  well  to  my  tank.  Daily  40%  -  50%  wcs.  Some  took  a  little  longer  to  acclimatise  but  turned  out  ok.   
 
 I  now  have  2  dead  discus  from  different  sources,  and  I  have  another  couple  of  discus  swimming  at  45  degrees  with  their  head  pointed  downwards  which  look  like  they  could  go  at  any  minute.  
 
 Discus  tank  temperature  at  30  degrees,  and  tank  treated  with  epsom  salt.
 
 Lost  a  piranha  early  today  morning  and  another  one  looks  like  its  on  the  way.  The  tops  of  both  piranhas  heads  have  turned  black.  Could  it  be  NO2  poisoning?  Last  water  change  was  50%  on  Sunday  with  tap  water.  NH3  and  NO2  test  0  but  at  this  point  I  am  not  sure  on  the  test  kits.  
 I  have   done  a  80  %  water  change  right  now  and  added  uniodised  salt.  Piranha  still  in  bad  condition  though.  
 
 Also  lost  a  SAE  and  a  swordtail  from  a  planted  tank.  SAE  dies  unexpectedly  on  Monday  and  swordtail  wasted  away  over  the  past  few  days.  No  water  changes  last  week.
 
 None  of  these  three  tanks  have  anything  in  common  except  water  and  hoses  which  I  use  to  siphon  out  waste  and  refill  the  tanks.  
 My  water  tests  fine  but  I  am  unsure  on  the  test  kits  at  the  moment.
 Food  isn't  an  issue  as  the  piranhas  get  prawns.  
 
 What  could  be  the  problem?  Chlorine?  Chloramine?  Temperature?  Any  ideas?  
 
 Could  they  be  unrelated  issues  and  I  am  just  having  a  spate  of  bad  luck?
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surya_niki
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hi  Pradeep,
 
 Sorry  on  your  loss  buddy.
 
         I  too  lost  two  angels  and  a  lemon  tetra  today.  and  the  angels  are  yours  which  I  picked  from  Irshad.  I  hope  the  breeding  pair  is  fine.  The  angels  are  so  spooked  seeing  one  of  its  kind  dead  that  they  are  not  eating  anything  from  mornining.  Hope  that  they  recover  soon.
 
               I  suspect  the  proble  with  you  discuss  should  be  the  temperature.
 
 Regards,
 Surya.
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hell,  I  just  lost  2  fish  when  writing  the  last  post.  
 
 A  discus  dropped  in  the  last  10  minutes.
 The  piranha  is  on  his  side  in  bad  condition  as  soon  as  I  did  a  water  change  with  tap  water.  Do  we  have  chloramines  getting  pumped  into  the  water?  I  am  using  hypo.  Or  could  it  be  the  pH  shock  was  just  too  much.
 
 The  discus  was  all  dark  and  stressed  so  far  and  death  seems  to  have  had  a  strange  effect  on  it.
 
 Pics  are  a  little  gory.
 
 
 Headstanding  Discus
 
 
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nikhilsood1
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Pradeep,  dude  sorry  for  the  loss  but  please  start  using  something  to  take  care  of  the  Chloramines.  I  think  it  might  be  a  problem  with  that.  Discus,  wait  for  the  experts.  Think  there  was  this  dechlorinator  from  some  company  in  the  US  which  was  there  in  ASK  so  just  pick  that.  It  is  pretty  potent,  one  small  bottle  treats  a  lot  of  water,  just  one  pointer  for  the  Discus.  Always  try  and  keep  everything  you  use  for  the  Discus  tank  seperate  from  other  tanks,  even  seperate  for  different  discus  tanks,  even  nets  and  stuff.  Rest  lets  hope  they  get  fine.
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oscar-lover
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Sorry  for  your  loss  Pradeep,  though  i  am  not  sure  its  got  something  to  do  with  your  water  i  guess,  i  lost  all  my  discus  in  one  shot.  Read  my  post  "Fear  of  loosing  my  discus"  posted  on  Aug  21,  2006.  I  had  a  similar  experience  and  if  discus  stand  with  their  head  down  it  means  somethings  wrong  with  the  water.
 
 Better  keep  yourself  prepared  so  you  can  save  the  other  guys.......
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rahulk
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hi  Pradeep,
            Sorry  for  your  loss!
 Please  run  some  activated  carbon  in  your  tank  ASAP.
 
 Rahul
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shishirkamat
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hi  Pradeep,
 Sory  for  the  loss.  Use  Sodium  Thiosulfate  at  every  water  change,this  will  neutralize  any  Chlorine  in  the  water  immediately.
 with  warm  regards
 Shishir  Kamat
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nikhilsood1
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hi  Shishir,  the  chlorine  can  be  taken  care  of  but  the  Chloramines  cannot  be  with  Sodium  Thiosulphate.  Thats  why  the  suggestion  of  a  commercial  mix.
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 I've  just  put  some  carbon  in  the  Piranha  tank.  
 
 Lost  the  2  big  guys  and  one  more  on  the  floor  at  the  moment.  
 I  am  using  Hypo  with  every  water  change.  P's  get  tap  water,  so  I  have  hypo  around.
 
 Discus  get  water  which  has  had  aeration  for  24  hours,  but  I  throw  some  hypo  crystals  in  anyway.
 
 Hope  someone  can  help  me  diagnose  these  symptoms.
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Suby7272
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hi  Pradeep
 
 I  too  have  lost  a  good  number  of  fish  lately  for  no  obivious  reasons.  I  guess  the  ambient  temperature  has  got  something  to  do  with  this.
 Take  off  the  canopy  from  your  discus  tank  (if  any)  and  also  try  running  a  fan  over  it.  See  if  it  helps.
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suuresh1
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hi  Pradeep,
 Sorry  about  the  fish.  Looks  like  the  maintainence  dude  in  your  building  goofed  on  the  bore  well  &  Cauvery  pumps  &  filled  the  wrong  tank  with  the  wrong  water.  I  rember  seeing  the  same  thing  at  Nikils  place.
 Check  your  Ph  it  will  be  off  the  charts.  Water  change  from  mineral  water  cans  for  now.  Dont  trust  the  water  if  you  stay  in  a  flat  with  2  sources  of  water.....until  you  test  it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 Suuresh
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rgg
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Pradeep,
   Â Sorry  for  the  loss  dude.
   Even  i  wanted  to  change  the  water  for  my  2  planted  tanks,  But  smelled  something  which  was  pungent  and  also  could  smell  Chlorine,  So  gave  up  the  idea  as  my  overhead  tank  was  filled  with  Cauvery  water.  
 
   Â A  few  bangaloreans  who  are  members  of  IAH  have  also  faced  a  similar  problem.  Even  one  of  my  friend  also  faced  a  similar  issue.  Where  he  has  lost  a  couple  of  O's  and  rainbows  after  a  water  change
 
 Folks  better  be  careful  with  your  water  changes  from  now  on  Chemical  filtration  (AC)  now  becomes  a  mandate  i  suppose.

 
 I  just  called  him  up  and  his  chemical  test  showed  traces  of  chloramine  it  seems.   I  suppose  he  used  silver  nitrate  to  indicate  chlorine  traces.
 
 
 Any  one  who  have  test  kits  of  chloramine  please  update  us  on  your  water  parameters.
 
 Pradeep  i  suppose  Hypo  does  not  remove  the  Ammonia  of  chloramine.  But  just  breaks  the  bond  i  believe.  I  suppose  zeolite  filtration  with  carbon  filtration  should  be  an  answer  to  chloramine.
 
 Folks  also  a  note....  RO  unit  does  not  remove  chloramine.....
 
 Raghu
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psimhan
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Hope  someone  can  identify  the  problem  with  these  pictures.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The  piranha  on  top  probably  died  within  the  last  hour,  its  head  and  top  part  of  the  body  were  completely  black.  The  lower  one  died  during  the  night  but  had  the  same  symptoms,  although  it  doesn't  show  anymore.
 
 Strangely,  the  two  larger  ones  which  died  lost  all  their  spots,  but  the  last  one  did  not.  Is  this  just  because  of  them  losing  spots  as  they  grow?
 
 I  had  dosed  Hypo  and  salt  last  night  but  did  not  work.  
 Unfortunately,  I  had  left  the  Chloramine  remover  in  the  other  house  which  I  got  in  the  morning.  
 As  of  now,  I  have  dosed  Kent  Chlorinex  Complete  in  both  the  Piranha  and  Discus  tanks.  This  is  supposed  to  remove  Chlorine,  Chloramine  and  Heavy   Metals.
 
 The  remaining  Piranha  are  doing  better,  not  skittish  or  swimming  oddly  like  before.  
 The  headstanding  discus  is  also  doing  better.  He  is  swimming  normally  at  times,  his  fins  have  opened  up  and  he  is  losing  the  dark  stressed  colour.
 
 Shall  update  again  in  the  evening.
 
 Also  I  noticed  a  very  strong  smell  of  ammonia  coming  from  the  P'  tank  before  I  dosed  Chlorinex.  Could  this  be  unbonded  ammonia  after  using  hypo  ?  If  so,  then  we  do  have  chloramines  in  the  water.
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discusboy
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 sorry  for  your  loss..  Crying or Very sad  
 
 regarding  discus  i  guess  pls  stop  epsom  salt  ..  continue  with  rock  salt..  
 45  degree  angle  but  dont  seem  dark  in  the  pics..  check  and  revert  if  they  are  scratching  against  objects  in  tank..
 
 Seems  to  be  some  water  prob..  check  water  parameters..
 
 WC  do  use  hypo..and  some  commercial  product  for  chloramine..
 Chemical  filteration  should  help  u  a  lot  as  Raghu  also  suggests  the  same..
 
 
 Keep  us  updated  regarding  the  same..
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rgg
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Fish dropping like flies, Help please Reply with quote

 Pradeep,
   After  using  Hypo  if  he  water  stinks  then  its  an  indicator  of  Ammonia.  Note  that  Hypo  breaks  the  bond  and  eliminates  Cl  but  NH3  goes  untouched.
 
   I  suppose  its  better  and  cheaper  to  use  AC  and  Zeolite  chambers  for  water  flow  control  to  remove  ammonia  and  Chlorine  both,  May  be  Hypo  might  catalyze  the  break  up  and  quicken  the  process.  But  i  am  not  sure  how  hypo  behaves  with  Zeolite  and  AC  chambers.
 
 Raghu
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