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Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon
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satyajeet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Hi,
 
 My  tank  is  30x18x15.
 
 Filter:EHEIM  2213
 Substrate:golden  sand  
 DIY  CO2.
 
 Fishes:  Clown  loaches,  Black  ghost  knife  fish,  red  tailed  shark,  neon  tetras
 
 I'm  based  in  Mumbai  and  was  looking  for  lighting  suggestions.
 
 I  have  attached  pictures  of  my  canopy  and  preferably  would  like  to  be  able  to  add  lights  into  it.  Currently  I  have  2x  14  watt  Oreva  tubelights  and  they  are  clearly  inadequate.
 
 After  a  lot  of  research  I  have  come  to  the  conclusion  that  there  are  2  kinds  of  lights.  One  the  make  the  fish  look  good  but  don't  do  the  plants  any  good  and  the  other  kind  that  have  a  high  PAR/PUR  which  is  great  for  the  plants  but  make  the  fish  look  crappy  as  the  color  of  the  light  is  purplish  to  the  human  eye.
 
 Given  my  limited  space  in  the  existing  canopy  I  guess  MH  lights  would  be  out  of  the  question  as  the  space  from  the  top  of  the  tank  to  the  top  of  the  canopy  leaves  only  about  3.5  inches  max  of  clear  space,  which  would  not  be  able  to  accommodate  the  MH's  in  it,  will  heat  the  water  to  a  high  degree.I  plan  to  out  3  dc  exhaust  fans(  the  ones  used  in  computers)  at  the  back  where  there  is  an  open  slot  but  it  still  might  not  be  enough,  plus  most  people  who  use  MH  recommend  that  the  MH  pendant/luminaire  should  be  atleast  12  inches  from  the  water  level.
 
 Which  leaves  me  the  option  of  T5  HO.
 
 Now  if  I  add  2  tubes  that  facilitate  plant  growth  the  wattage  per  gallon  won't  be  adequate  as  the  largest  size  I  can  accommodate  is  22  inches,  the  next  size  is  3  feet  if  im  not  mistaken  and  my  tank  length  is  2  1/2  feet
 
 If  I  add  4  tubes  that  facilitate  plant  growth  then  I  wont  have  place  to  add  normal  lights  which  will  make  the  fish  look  good.
 
 So  that's  one  confusion.
 
 Secondly,  Mumbai  sadly  had  pathetic  LFS's  and  even  the  lighting  dealers  here  are  clueless.
 
 I  contacted  the  Havells  mumbai  office  to  let  me  know  if  they  retail  their  Gro-lux  range  in  India,  as  it  seems  to  have  the  best  PAR  as  well  as  PUR.  No  reply  from  them  yet.
 
 The  next  best  option  I  found  was  fluora  77  from  Osram  which  has  a  PUR  of  0.71.  
 
 http://www.defblog.se/permalink/1402.html
 http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm
 
 When  I  mailed  their  local  office  their  person  said  he'll  send  me  a  vendors  contact  who  can  get  them  for  me,  but  that  seems  to  have  reached  a  dead  end  too.
 
 Now  I'm  back  to  square  one.  Does  any  body  have  contact  info  of  any  vendor  who  might  be  retailing  the  above  mentioned  in  Mumbai?
 
 Questions
 1.  If  PAR  and  PUR  are  the  only  true  measures  then  why  do  people  keep  talking  about  color  temperature  in  kelvin  which  is  totally  immaterial  to  plants  as  this  measure  along  with  CRI  is  only  applicable  to  how  the  human  eye  perceives  light
 
 2.  If  I  cant  use  MH  and  the  grolux/fluora  lights  arent  available  whats  the  next  best  option  for  me?  Regular  T5  HO's?  If  yes  which  brand  and  why.  I  need  the  max  length  of  the  tube  with  housing  not  to  exceed  30  inches
 
 3.  People  keep  quoting  that  amano  uses  lamps  that  are  8000K.  whats  so  special  in  that  color  range?
 
 4.  Found  another  contrasting  opinion  on  another  forum  
 
 http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-aquatic-lighting/38014-lighting-spectrum-photosythesis-3.html
 
 where  a  guy  quotes
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
"Quoted  from  Aqua  Journal:
 In  the  tropical  streams  where  aquatic  plants  grow,  sunlight  are  filtered  through  many  vertical  layers  of  tree  canopy.  The  upper  layer  receives  as  much  as  25%  to  100%  direct  exposure  to  sunlight.  This  is  scientifically  known  as  the  euphotic  layer.  In  the  lower  parts  of  the  forest  and  streams  below,  where  low  light  conditions  occurs,  this  is  known  as  the  oligophotic  layer  where  a  mere  1-3  percent  of  light  is  made  available  to  plants.  This  small  percentage  of  light  are  filtered  through  the  forest  green  canopy  and  reflected  as  incidental  light,  thus  the  natural  wavelengths  are  dramatically  altered.  Aquatic  plants  have  evolved  millions  of  years  to  adapt  to  greenish  light  available  to  them.  The  NA-Lamp  adopts  a  fresh  green  ulothrix  fluorescent  to  reproduce  nature's  green  irradiance  wavelength  in  your  aquarium."
                 

 
 So  Amano  is  saying  that  the  blue  and  red  spectrum  is  irrelevant.
 So  who  is  right??
 
 5.  Does  anybody  know  where  I  can  procure  either  gro-lux  or  fluora  lamps  in  mumbai?
 
 Thanks
 Satya
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 To  install  proper  light,  the  main  problem  is  your  tank  length.  
 
 The  best  lights  for  your  tank  would  be  4  2  feet  T5  HO.  Go  for  1  4200K  and  3  6500K  T5  HO.  Each  tube  will  come  with  24watt.  And  the  total  wattage  will  be  good  to  start  with  planted.
 
 But  if  you  want  to  keep  your  currents  plants  only,  I  don't  think  you  need  to  change  any  lights.  Cause  you  have  Amazons  and  they  will  do  too  good  with  your  existing  lights.
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satyajeet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

                                                   
T2CHATTO  wrote  (View  Post):                
To  install  proper  light,  the  main  problem  is  your  tank  length.  
 
 The  best  lights  for  your  tank  would  be  4  2  feet  T5  HO.  Go  for  1  4200K  and  3  6500K  T5  HO.  Each  tube  will  come  with  24watt.  And  the  total  wattage  will  be  good  to  start  with  planted.
 
 But  if  you  want  to  keep  your  currents  plants  only,  I  don't  think  you  need  to  change  any  lights.  Cause  you  have  Amazons  and  they  will  do  too  good  with  your  existing  lights.                

 
 The  amazons  are  what  I  have  when  the  tank  is  cycling.  Once  that's  done  I  want  to  start  aquascaping  it.
 
 What  brand  and  model  you  do  suggest?  Also  whats  the  rationale  behind  the  1  4200k  and  3  6500K?
 
 Also  if  you  know  the  answers  to  the  questions  I  posted  earlier  it'll  be  great
 
 Thanks
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Let  me  try  to  answer  you  Smile
 
 Questions  
 1.  If  PAR  and  PUR  are  the  only  true  measures  then  why  do  people  keep  talking  about  color  temperature  in  kelvin  which  is  totally  immaterial  to  plants  as  this  measure  along  with  CRI  is  only  applicable  to  how  the  human  eye  perceives  light  

 
 CRI  is  not  related  with  plants  growth  at  all.  High  CRI  means  that  will  make  the  subject  much  more  visible  to  eye.You  are  correct  on  this  point.
 
 Kelvin  is  the  most  important  factor  in  plants  growth.  Different  Kelvins  means  different  light  spectrum.  If  you  are  going  to  Lower  kelvin,  Red  spectrum  will  be  high  and  if  you  go  with  High  Kelvin  then  Blue  spectrum  will  be  higher  than  Red.  We  need  Red  spectrum  more  mainly  when  growing  Red  Plants.  Otherwise  6500K  lights  will  be  good  for  most  of  the  plants  grow.
 
 personally  I  use  1:3  ratio  while  using  4200K  and  6500K.
 
 2.  If  I  cant  use  MH  and  the  grolux/fluora  lights  arent  available  whats  the  next  best  option  for  me?  Regular  T5  HO's?  If  yes  which  brand  and  why.  I  need  the  max  length  of  the  tube  with  housing  not  to  exceed  30  inches  
 
 Go  with  24"  T5  HO  tubes.  They  come  with  24  watt  each  and  4  of  them  will  be  good  enough  for  your  tank.  But  do  not  forget  to  use  proper  parabolic  reflector  to  get  max  result.
 
 Philips  and  Osram  T5  both  are  good  and  available  in  Market.  For  choke  go  with  2x24  BAG  choke.
 
 3.  People  keep  quoting  that  amano  uses  lamps  that  are  8000K.  whats  so  special  in  that  color  range?  
 
 But  people  never  quote,  Amano  does  not  use  lower  Kelvin  than  8000K   Chuckle  
 
 Amano  Lamps  are  specially  made  for  plant  growth.  If  your  pocket  permits  there  should  not  be  any  problem.
 
 4.  Found  another  contrasting  opinion  on  another  forum  
 
 If  it  is  your  first  planted  tank,  my  sugession  not  to  go  into  so  much  technical  stuffs.
 
 5.  Does  anybody  know  where  I  can  procure  either  gro-lux  or  fluora  lamps  in  mumbai?  
 
 No  Idea   Crying or Very sad
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satyajeet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

                                                   
Quote:                
Kelvin  is  the  most  important  factor  in  plants  growth.  Different  Kelvins  means  different  light  spectrum.  If  you  are  going  to  Lower  kelvin,  Red  spectrum  will  be  high  and  if  you  go  with  High  Kelvin  then  Blue  spectrum  will  be  higher  than  Red.  We  need  Red  spectrum  more  mainly  when  growing  Red  Plants.  Otherwise  6500K  lights  will  be  good  for  most  of  the  plants  grow.                

 
 Not  to  argue,  but  from  what  I've  read  kelvin  isn't  the  measure  of  the  light  spectrum  but  rather  the  average  of  sorts  and  2  different  model  bulbs  having  the  same  kelvin  rating  can  have  a  different  color  spectrum  
 
 For  green  plants  the  lighting  peaks  that  are  most  important:
 chlorophyll-a:  430nm/662nm
 chlorophyll-b:  453nm/642nm
 carotenoids:  449nm/475nm
 
 So  does  the  phillips  T5  HO  have  peaks  in  spectrum.  The  reason  im  asking  is  that  there  has  to  be  some  logic  behind  manufacturers  producing  lamps  that  specifically  create  more  emission  in  the  spectra  mentioned  above.  ie  better  plant  growth  and  photosynthesis
 
 The  problem  is  that  such  bulbs  are  not  available  locally  or  atleast  im  not  aware  of  places  where  I  can  buy  them,  so  the  next  alternative  is  regualr  T5  HO's  but  im  not  able  to  find  the  color  spectrum  of  these  and  the  kelvin  rating  isnt  a  accurate  indicator..   Sad  
 
 Could  you  give  me  the  exact  model  numbers  of  the  ones  you  recommend?
 
 For  OSRAM  are  you  recommending  the  lumilux  range?
 And  what  about  phillips?
 
 
 You  mentioned  that  ADA  8000k  is  the  best,  but  is  it  available  in  India?  I  don't  mind  spending  money,  but  ordering  online  doesn't  seem  like  a  good  option  considering  the  hassles  one  has  to  undergo  with  indian  custom  officials.
 
 Thanks
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 [url]Not  to  argue,  [/url]
 
 Same  here.  The  subject  is  too  vast  and  we  really  have  a  very  little  knowledge  regarding  the  same.  Currently  I  am  going  through  some  read  ups  from  different  GURUs.....  will  share  my  understanding  if  possible  later.
 
 
 I  am  not  using  Philips  nor  Osram  T5  HO.  I  am  using  GE  Startcoat  T5  HO.  Model  Number  is  90266.  This  is  Hungary  made  but  easily  available  in  Delhi.  And  the  Kelvin  indicated  by  reputed  companies  will  not  varry  much  in  reality.  And  if  you  are  talking  about  special  lamps  for  plant  growth,  Osram  has  a  wide  range  of  them.  But  not  sure  where  it  is  available.
 
 For  ADA  bulb  get  in  touch  with  Adip.  He  may  help  you  out.  Smile
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 By  the  way...  are  you  going  through  the  below  topic??  Just  curius   Wink  
 
 http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/science-aquatic-lighting/38014-lighting-spectrum-photosythesis.html
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satyajeet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Yes  that  was  one  of  the  places  I  found  while  researching  lighting.
 
 This  other  one  was  even  more  informative  
 
 http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm
 
 And  this  one  is  good  to  figure  out  what  "T5"  actually  means  Wink
 
 http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm
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cokeamod
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Dear  sir,
 First  of  all,  in  this  whole  'lighting'  talk,  nowhere  have  you  mentioned  what  kind  of  setup  you  intend  to  have?  What  i  mean,  do  you  want  to  have  fast  growing  green  plants?  or  a  mix  of  red  and  green?  or  what  'exactly'??
 
 
                                                 
Quote:                
For  green  plants  the  lighting  peaks  that  are  most  important:
 chlorophyll-a:  430nm/662nm
 chlorophyll-b:  453nm/642nm
 carotenoids:  449nm/475nm                  

 Instead  for  growing  good  plants  what  is  more  essential  is  regular  planned  water  changes  coupled  with  'good'  light  and  ferts..  Instead  of  spending  your  time  in  getting  to  know  what  'experts'  do,  why  not  give  a  try  to  whats  available.  
 Please  do  not  over-complicate,  plants  WILL  adapt  to  whatever  lighting  you  provide  as  long  as  its  in  the  'range'  of  their  requirements.
 
 Now  for  my  suggestions:
 1)  You  already  have  some  reflecting  material.  Why  not  install  4  to  6   36W  plls?  I  guarantee  you  can  grow  about  anything  under  it.
 2)  4  x  philips  t5's
 3)  Mix  of  above.
 4)  Cfl's
 
 regards,
 amod.
 
 P.S:  Its  nice  to  know  about  the  technical  stuff,  but  many  great  planted  guys  here  will  agree  that  keeping  it  simple  pays!
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satyajeet
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

                                                   
cokeamod  wrote  (View  Post):                
Dear  sir,
 First  of  all,  in  this  whole  'lighting'  talk,  nowhere  have  you  mentioned  what  kind  of  setup  you  intend  to  have?  What  i  mean,  do  you  want  to  have  fast  growing  green  plants?  or  a  mix  of  red  and  green?  or  what  'exactly'??
 
                                                   
Quote:                
For  green  plants  the  lighting  peaks  that  are  most  important:
 chlorophyll-a:  430nm/662nm
 chlorophyll-b:  453nm/642nm
 carotenoids:  449nm/475nm                  

 Instead  for  growing  good  plants  what  is  more  essential  is  regular  planned  water  changes  coupled  with  'good'  light  and  ferts..  Instead  of  spending  your  time  in  getting  to  know  what  'experts'  do,  why  not  give  a  try  to  whats  available.  
 Please  do  not  over-complicate,  plants  WILL  adapt  to  whatever  lighting  you  provide  as  long  as  its  in  the  'range'  of  their  requirements.
 
 Now  for  my  suggestions:
 1)  You  already  have  some  reflecting  material.  Why  not  install  4  to  6   36W  plls?  I  guarantee  you  can  grow  about  anything  under  it.
 2)  4  x  philips  t5's
 3)  Mix  of  above.
 4)  Cfl's
 
 regards,
 amod.
 
 P.S:  Its  nice  to  know  about  the  technical  stuff,  but  many  great  planted  guys  here  will  agree  that  keeping  it  simple  pays!                

 
 Hi  Amod,
 
 I  guess  being  from  a  software  background  I  tend  to  analyze  information  a  lot  and  don't  take  things  at  face  value...  yes  I  know  its  a  flaw  at  times,  but  that's  just  the  way  I  am.  If  I  pursue  a  subject  I  try  and  learn  and  use  as  much  of  it  as   I  can..  guess  you  can  call  me  a  kind  of  "perfectionist".
 
 I  don't  intend  to  have  plants  that  are  red,  so  I  guess  I  don't  have  to  worry  about  the  blue  spectrum  a  lot...
 
 I  tried  to  find  the  best  option  available  and  am  kinda  frustrated  at  the  lack  of  equipment  locally.
 
 Given  that  situation  I  think  ill  need  to  go  with  T5  HO's  and  I  think  ill  mix  up  tubes  and  use  2  6500K  and  2  8000K's  and  I  guess  the  plants  should  adapt...
 
 I  don't  think  I  have  space  for  6  tubes,  a  max  of  4  is  what  I  can  accomodate,  and  given  the  2  1/2  feet  length  constraint  im  limited  to  24  watts  per  tube.
 
 I  do  use  required  fertilizers  as  well  as  CO2,  so  only  the  lights  were  an  issue.
 
 I  have  a  friend  coming  down  from  the  US  in  december  and  Ill  maybe  ask  him  to  see  if  he  can  pick  up  something  suitable  from  there..
 
 Thanks  for  your  input.....  
 
 Cheers,
 Satya
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Tirtha C
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Sathya.....  this  is  good  to  do  your  own  analysis  before  you  start.  But  I  will  support  Amod's  comment.  It's  always  great  to  gather  information  from  good  posts,  but  that  is  not  everything.  Unless  you  are  burning  your  fingures  with  own  live  experience  the  learning  will  be  meaningless.  Amod  told  you  not  to  go  into  too  much  techy  things  just  to  avoid  your  upcoming  frustration.  
 
 The  frustration  will  come,
 When  you  wont  get  things  what  you  are  looking  for.
 
 Even  after  installing  the  correct  accesorries  when  there  will  be  missmatch  in  parameters.  
 
 It's  always  better  to  start  from  a  small  and  grown  up  with  your  own  experience.  
 
 All  the  best.!
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harshal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Hi  satya
 
      What  you  need  is  a  good  allround  system  which  will  also  include  good  ECgs  for  driving  the  lamps.  The  effeciency  of  the  lamps  are  directly  dependent  on  the  ECgs.  Also  the  power  consumption  of  the  system.  
 
   There  are  pros  and  cons  in  using  each  type  of  lamp.  The  coices  you  have  are  as  follows
   a.  PLLs
   b.  T8  lamps
   c.  T5HO  lamps
 
 I  would  not  consider  MH  for  your  tank.  Since  I  personally  feel  it  will  be  a  overkill  for  your  set  up.
 
   a.  Plls  -  These  are  good  short  term  solutions  if  you  use  ECgs  instead  of  copper  chokes  you  will  have  to  change  the  lamps  every  6  months.  The  heat  generated  by  the  PLLs  is  significant.Initial  Cost  will  be  moderate  as  compared  to  the  other  2  options.
 
 b.  T8  -  These  are  the  most  used  lamps  by  planted  aquarists  in  india,  but  the  trend  in  now  slowly  changing  to  T5  HO.  These  lamps  generate  lesser  heat  as  compared  to  the  PLLs.  But  in  india  2  ft  T8  range  is  very  limited.  You  will  not  get  8000k  tubes  in  this  range.  The  lamps  need  a  change  every  10  -  12  months  when  used  with  ECGs.  Initial  Cost  will  be  the  least  with  this  system.
 
 c.  T5HO  -  These  in  my  experince  is  the  best  option  avilable  to  the  hobbyist  today.  These  are  sleek  lamps  ,  generate  low  heat  lots  of  options  avilable  with  this  type  of  lamps.  The  power  consumption  is  much  lower  since  you  can  aim  for  a  lower  wpg  ratio  with  these  tubes  as  there  efficency  is  higher.  Intial  cost  high  as  compared  to  the  other  two  options.  The  lamps  need  to  be  changed  every  24  months.  This  on  the  longer  run  will  be  the  most  cost  effective  system  for  the  aquarium  without  having  to  compromise  on  the  quality.
 
   I  belive  the  kelvin  range  is  extremly  important  along  with  other  parameters  of  the  lamps.  Its  the  kelvin  range  of  the  lamp  which  defines  the  basic  nature  of  the  lamp.  Yes  the  PAR  and  PUR  values  help  in  refining  the  judgement  toward  the  lamps.
   In  mY  personal  experince  I  have  seen  this  combination  work  the  best  
 8000k  -  6500k  -  4000k  -  6500k.  8000k  lamp  being  in  the  front  of  the  aquarium.
 
 Hope  this  helps.
 
 Regards
   Harshal
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satyajeet
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Tirthankar,  Amod  &  Harshal  
 
 Thanks  for  all  your  inputs   Thumb Up  
 
 Cheers
 Satya
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defdac
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Also  try  my  light  lightcalculator,  it's  in  beta  and  have  been  for  quite  som  time.  I  never  seem  to  get  time  to  revamp  it  and  make  it  more  userfriendly:
 http://82.183.138.227/GTKTest/GTKTest.html
 
 One  note  about  which  light  to  choose:  You  can  grow  plants  with  lamps  of  really  bad  spectral  quality  like  ordinary  wolfram  filament  bulbs  and  completely  yellow  mercury  vapour  lamps,  and  lamps  with  almost  only  green  in  their  spectrum.
 
 Like  Amano  said  the  plants  have  adapted  to  be  able  to  cope  with  all  kinds  of  light.
 
 The  main  difference  is  how  much  usable  light  you  get  with  the  amount  of  electricity  you  want  to  put  into  the  system.  It's  here  the  PUR-efficiency  play  a  big  role.
 
 Just  because  green  plants  are  able  to  actually  use  green  light,  like  Amano  is  hinting,  it  doesn't  mean  they  prefer  it  or  it  is  efficient.
 
 Hobbyists  with  very  limitied  space  above  the  aquarium  and  thus  limited  amount  of  wattage  that  will  fit  above  the  tank  -  not  to  mention  how  much  heat  is  acceptable  -  will  be  helped  by  getting  a  bulb  with  high  PUR-efficiency  and  also  getting  electronic  ballast  producing  the  least  amount  of  heat.
 
 The  Amano  bulb  is  btw  an  ordinary  triphosphor  bulb  with  high  PUR-efficiency,  which  almost  all  triphosphor  bulbs  have  because  of  the  large  amount  of  blue  they  produce  (at  least  the  triphosphors  with  high  Kelvin).
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trevor
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Best Choice of lighting for 35 gallon Reply with quote

 Hi  Satyajeet,
 First  get  rid  of  your  hood.  That  type  of  hood  is  not  meant  for  planted  tanks.  Many  plants  come  out  of  the  water  to  flower.
 The  purpose  and  beauty  of  a  planted  tank  will  be  defeated  with  that  outdated  hood.
 
 Next  get  rid  of  your  shell  filled  gravel.  Do  not  expect  plants  to  bloom  in  that  calcium  filled  environment.  
 Your  Echinodorus  will  slowly  use  up  the  nutrient  reserves  stored  in  their  thick  upper  portion  of  roots  and  when  that  is  over  they  slowly  go  downhill.  
 Use  an  iron  rich  substrate  at  the  bottom  of  your  tank.
 
 Just  my  take.  Smile
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