Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
After 2 years of keeping the discus in BB tank i as getting bored, so about 1 month back added some sand, few stones and couple of Amazon plants to the tank. I have 3 discus now, 2 blue snake skin (SS) and 1 red melon (RM) which is actually reddish orange in color.
Within one week the tank came alive with flirting and dancing between the two SS discus. The RM discus was acting disinterested in the activity going on, but after about a week suddenly the RM started chasing off smaller SS discus and started dancing with the larger SS which seemed like a male. Then last week the RM started cleaning the plastic end cap on the heater, next day the fish started shivering allover, then i saw it lay few eggs on the heater cap with the larger SS in attendance. The eggs were immediately eaten by both of these discus.
Next day i bought a 2" PVC pipe kept it in the tank and both the fish started cleaning the PVC pipe this was about mid last week, then last Sunday evening the RM laid about 60-70 eggs and the large SS discus was participating to fertilize the eggs. Both of them were guarding the eggs and after 24 hours about 4-5 eggs had turned white rest were fine, but by yesterday morning all the eggs disappeared.
Meanwhile yesterday evening the smaller SS started shivering and it was trying to attract the male, after some reluctance the male went with the smaller SS and it started laying eggs on a small stone at the other end of the tank, i did not see the male fertilizing the eggs, all eggs were then eaten by both of them.
I am planning to get another tank and remove one of the females. What will be the best option, breed the blue SS female with blue SS male? or breed the RM female with blue SS male? Any idea what color offspring i will get in each case?
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
well maxv breeding any of the two females will be fine but IMO breed the two snake skin as u will be sure about the strain but then again the world did not progress without experimenting
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
If you don't intend to breed them commercially to get a new strain & ultimately exchange/sell, there's no point rearing the cross of RM & SS just to see then grow into something not so appealing (may be).
Given an option of selective breeding - I'd go ahead with Snakeskin Pair. You know for sure what you're going to get - provided they breed true or don't throwback.
Not to mention that if you've picked the SS from the same person, you could just end up inbreeding which one would otherwise avoid, moreover if the pair was bought with the sole purpose of breeding. Well, I'm not sure how much of difference that would make to the offspring’s, but this is certainly a better choice. Beta can you please shed some light on this.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
As describe in the post you have now two confirmed Female , Red Melon & Snake Skin , but your Male is still not confirm ( need to be working Male ) .
I suggest you arrange a seperate tank of 18 x18 x 18 size for breeding purpose , keep it bare bottom ( no sand, plants etc ) . put one PVC pipe in the middle and , if you wish you can put a small sponge filter ( simple air stone is best ) .Keep the Aeration in the tank to minimium and after two days put the confirm Snake Skin Female & Snake Skin Male ( which still need to prove ) .
Don't get disappointed if this pair eat few spawn , give the pair time to learn
they will succeed . Don't disturb them and give them good water condition and feed . One day you will get result ( provided Male should be fertile )
With Snake skin you may get few turqoise also .
It is better to clean the breeding pairs internally & externall to get healthy babies before breeding .
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
Quote:
@ Shiva
"It is better to clean the breeding pairs internally & externall to get healthy babies before breeding"
What do you mean by clean them internally & external? What is to be done?
This is specially for the breeders who handles many breeding pairs of different blood line and strain . This is basically to prevent the parents and the frys from attack from any parasites during the whole breeding process and to get the healthy babies .
Since you have only one pair there is nothing to worry ,
This method is recommended by my Guru Mr Andrew Soh and I follow it regularly .
1) Once you get a confirm pair you transfers the pair in to the seperate tank and it will take some time for the pair to spawn and this is the time you need to carry the treatment .
2) Do treatment with Potassium Permanganate for 3 days on day 1 , Day 4 & day 7
complete this treatment on day 8 with 100% WC . ( 3 days x 24 hrs )
3) During these 8 days treatment feed the discus with food incorporated with Metronidazole
@ 1.2 gm to @ 1.5 gm for 100 gm feed .
4) After completion of PP treatment on 8th days continue the treatment with Metronidozole in Feed & also in water for another 5 days . Doasge of Metro in water is @ 1.5 gm to 100 ltr .
Disolve the Metronidazole in luke warm water before adding to the tank . Do regular WC and redose the metro.
5) If you have problem during breeding producing frys with split fins , deforms or frequent body darkening , Antibiotic treatment is also required after the completion of treatment with Metro (ie after 13 days ).
If you clean the pair before breeding you will get healthy babies and you may not have problem with the frys in their latter growth stage .
The frequency of this treatment is depend on the no of breeding pairs , frequency of spawn and the problems you face during the different breeding stage and growth of the babies .
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
Quote:
This is specially for the breeders who handles many breeding pairs of different blood line and strain . This is basically to prevent the parents and the frys from attack from any parasites during the whole breeding process and to get the healthy babies .
Since you have only one pair there is nothing to worry ,
This method is recommended by my Guru Mr Andrew Soh and I follow it regularly .
1) Once you get a confirm pair you transfers the pair in to the seperate tank and it will take some time for the pair to spawn and this is the time you need to carry the treatment .
2) Do treatment with Potassium Permanganate for 3 days on day 1 , Day 4 & day 7
complete this treatment on day 8 with 100% WC . ( 3 days x 24 hrs )
3) During these 8 days treatment feed the discus with food incorporated with Metronidazole
@ 1.2 gm to @ 1.5 gm for 100 gm feed .
4) After completion of PP treatment on 8th days continue the treatment with Metronidozole in Feed & also in water for another 5 days . Doasge of Metro in water is @ 1.5 gm to 100 ltr .
Disolve the Metronidazole in luke warm water before adding to the tank . Do regular WC and redose the metro.
5) If you have problem during breeding producing frys with split fins , deforms or frequent body darkening , Antibiotic treatment is also required after the completion of treatment with Metro (ie after 13 days ).
If you clean the pair before breeding you will get healthy babies and you may not have problem with the frys in their latter growth stage .
The frequency of this treatment is depend on the no of breeding pairs , frequency of spawn and the problems you face during the different breeding stage and growth of the babies .
Thank you Shiva Great post should help us all...
Cheers..,
PS. Any more advise on EESOB?And eggs catch fungus/turning white by 1-2days..?
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
Quote:
PS. Any more advise on EESOB?And eggs catch fungus/turning white by 1-2days..?
To prevent fungus use metheylen blue 3 hrs after female lays the eggs .
There are various reasons for Eggs turnning white . few are as below .
1) Infertile male .
2) Water hardness , water too hard for the sperms to penetrate in to the eggs .
3)Water Temp : Water temp is too high , sperms dies .
4) Male is fertile but after the female lays the eggs , Male has not fertilise the eggs , Male is lazy , or male is not in ready to fertilise the eggs .
5) Pair is not confirmed , both are female .
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
Discus breed at soft water with KH 5, GH 6 max . if you are sure that your water is not hard then you are nothing to worry . If water is hard hatching will be problem .
Temp around 28 degree C to 29 Degree C is good for breeding .
Normally Heckel discus are kept at higher temp of 31degree .
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
Hi Nanu,
I would suggest a temperature of 28deg. This is going to help you elevate temperatures to 30 and 32deg if you need to medicate or cure discus. By already keeping them at 32, you will need to raise the temperatures even higher which might do more harm than good.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
Nanu ,
Discus always at 32 deg C is dangerious , just imagine if your heater fails to cut off at 32 deg what will be the result . Yes during de-flagellating increasing the water temp is advisible but not always .
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Love triangle in my discus tank, what to do?
@ Shiva
2) Do treatment with Potassium Permanganate for 3 days on day 1 , Day 4 & day 7
complete this treatment on day 8 with 100% WC . ( 3 days x 24 hrs )
3) During these 8 days treatment feed the discus with food incorporated with Metronidazole
@ 1.2 gm to @ 1.5 gm for 100 gm feed .
4) After completion of PP treatment on 8th days continue the treatment with Metronidozole in Feed & also in water for another 5 days . Doasge of Metro in water is @ 1.5 gm to 100 ltr .
Disolve the Metronidazole in luke warm water before adding to the tank . Do regular WC and redose the metro.
The Metro treatment i had done couple of times last year, i have not done the Potassium Permanganate treatment so far, how much PP per 100 liters? is there any specific temperature i should keep? The current temperature setting is 28 deg C.
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